4 ms·

The death spiral of an American family

27 points by derbOac 5y ago

simulate-me 5y ago
Dave Jr. is a high school dropout and an ex-fentanyl addict. Life in America is incredibly fragile. It’s sad, but one’s quality of life largely comes down to decisions made in middle-to-late teenage years. Big mistakes, like dropping out of school or developing a drug addiction, are nearly impossible to recover from.
giantg2 5y ago
Paywall
- Zhenya 5y ago
  https://archive.ph/bNEAc https://archive.ph/bNEAc
Pulcinella 5y ago
It sounds like they think they need to pay the deceased father’s debts (which they absolutely do not. Don’t know why no-one, including the WaPo journalist, is telling them this. Sounds also like they have a lot of their own debt, but you do not and should not pay a deceased relatives debt).
- giantg2 5y ago
  Technically they could be liable. If they're paying debts with any estate money (if he left anything), they have to follow a priority. If they're paying lower priority debts before higher priority ones (as set by probate law), then they could be personally liable for the ones that should have been paid.
- MerelyMortal 5y ago
  > walked into the funeral home ... hoping to settle one more of his father’s outstanding debts It makes sense that they need to pay to receive the ashes, but "one more" implies they are paying other debts, with zero details that they are receiving anything tangible. > inheriting ... his father’s end-of-life expenses, thousands of dollars in debts This article does nothing to help its readers and in fact makes things worse by compounding the notion that debts are inherited.
- basicplus2 5y ago
  generally of course if properly planned, after death ones bills should all be paid in full, but the cheque for the funeral should bounce...
- robocat 5y ago
  Except children can be forced to pay medical and resthome debts in some contexts, especially if the parent doesn’t qualify for MedicAid. There are 30 states with filial responsibility statutes: presumably the invisible hand will grab more cash from children in the future using those statutes. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=filial+responsibility+medical+debt https://duckduckgo.com/?q=filial+responsibility+medical+debt Not relevant in this case because the kids clearly haven’t got anything worth taking, and Michigan doesn’t have filial responsibility laws. “In order for filial responsibility to become an issue, a number of issues will have to take place: The elderly parent cannot pay the nursing home bill, The adult child has the ability to pay the nursing home bill, The elderly parent could not qualify for Medicaid, The care facility sues the adult child.”. https://michiganestateplanning.com/do-i-have-to-pay-my-parents-nursing-home-bill-in-michigan/ https://michiganestateplanning.com/do-i-have-to-pay-my-paren...
giantg2 5y ago
'“Probably worth three hundred, maybe more,” he said. He was going to buy an urn for his father’s ashes and then put some of those ashes into a pendant for Brionna. Maybe they would go together to California and scatter the rest on a beach.' I really hope this is just talk. If you're having trouble paying rent, I don't think an urn, pendant, and a trip is a good idea. Granted, this is mostly the symptom of the structural economic issues in the country.
- op00to 5y ago
  Every person should be able to afford to take care of their dead. Poor people have feelings and deserve urns and remembrance.
  - giantg2 5y ago
    True, as I said the root cause is at the system level. But given the system we do live under, I'd rather pay my debts than do anything extra. When I die, donate my organs, donate my body to science, have them pay the cremation when they're done, throw my ashes in the garden.
nunez 5y ago
Hit in the feels, this one. On one hand, I'm saddened and frustrated by the proliferation of layaway and micro-payday lending companies like Klarna and Affirm that are squarely taking advantage of this pattern of reverse economic mobility. (Affirm is even on some NBA jerseys!) On the other hand, those services can be a lifeline for folks with $5 in their account and a need to get a ride home. In this article, Brionna was stuck at work many times because of her and her family not having a car. However, she was working doubles at Kroger and A&W to save up to go to college and move to California in hopes of reversing her family's downward spiral into poverty. What would her expected life outcome be if she could use Klarna (for example) to get a ride and pay for it later when her economic situation is better? (I'm assuming that she would use her earnings to save for her future and that she's financially responsible despite her Dad stealing her money to make his ends meet.) Either way, it sucks that so many people in the world are experiencing these hardships.
jeffrallen 5y ago
I do not want to blame Dave Jr, but in every picture (and caption) he's smoking. If you are $1.35 short to bring your daughter home from standing outside in freezing weather, you definitely cannot afford the thousands of dollars a year a smoking addiction costs. His case worker (whoever signed him up for the free government wifi hotspot) should sign him up for nicotine replacement therapy paid for by Medicaid. Sigh, so sad.
- jbirer 5y ago
  Poverty usually comes along with many personality traits. Deflecting blame, not reducing habits, self-victimization etc. I feel like the whole picture has not been painted in this story.
- Doxin 5y ago
  If you're under that much stress you're hardly in a position to add more stress by trying to stop smoking. Yes ideally this person would not be smoking. Expecting stressed people to be paragons of virtue however is unrealistic.
op00to 5y ago
It’s obvious from the comments here that most of the HN population has never been poor.

27 points by derbOac 5y ago

Dave Jr. is a high school dropout and an ex-fentanyl addict. Life in America is incredibly fragile. It’s sad, but one’s quality of life largely comes down to decisions made in middle-to-late teenage years. Big mistakes, like dropping out of school or developing a drug addiction, are nearly impossible to recover from.

giantg2 5y ago

Paywall

Zhenya 5y ago
https://archive.ph/bNEAc https://archive.ph/bNEAc

Pulcinella 5y ago

It sounds like they think they need to pay the deceased father’s debts (which they absolutely do not. Don’t know why no-one, including the WaPo journalist, is telling them this. Sounds also like they have a lot of their own debt, but you do not and should not pay a deceased relatives debt).

giantg2 5y ago
Technically they could be liable. If they're paying debts with any estate money (if he left anything), they have to follow a priority. If they're paying lower priority debts before higher priority ones (as set by probate law), then they could be personally liable for the ones that should have been paid.
MerelyMortal 5y ago
> walked into the funeral home ... hoping to settle one more of his father’s outstanding debts It makes sense that they need to pay to receive the ashes, but "one more" implies they are paying other debts, with zero details that they are receiving anything tangible. > inheriting ... his father’s end-of-life expenses, thousands of dollars in debts This article does nothing to help its readers and in fact makes things worse by compounding the notion that debts are inherited.
basicplus2 5y ago
generally of course if properly planned, after death ones bills should all be paid in full, but the cheque for the funeral should bounce...
robocat 5y ago
Except children can be forced to pay medical and resthome debts in some contexts, especially if the parent doesn’t qualify for MedicAid. There are 30 states with filial responsibility statutes: presumably the invisible hand will grab more cash from children in the future using those statutes. https://duckduckgo.com/?q=filial+responsibility+medical+debt https://duckduckgo.com/?q=filial+responsibility+medical+debt Not relevant in this case because the kids clearly haven’t got anything worth taking, and Michigan doesn’t have filial responsibility laws. “In order for filial responsibility to become an issue, a number of issues will have to take place: The elderly parent cannot pay the nursing home bill, The adult child has the ability to pay the nursing home bill, The elderly parent could not qualify for Medicaid, The care facility sues the adult child.”. https://michiganestateplanning.com/do-i-have-to-pay-my-parents-nursing-home-bill-in-michigan/ https://michiganestateplanning.com/do-i-have-to-pay-my-paren...

giantg2 5y ago

'“Probably worth three hundred, maybe more,” he said. He was going to buy an urn for his father’s ashes and then put some of those ashes into a pendant for Brionna. Maybe they would go together to California and scatter the rest on a beach.' I really hope this is just talk. If you're having trouble paying rent, I don't think an urn, pendant, and a trip is a good idea. Granted, this is mostly the symptom of the structural economic issues in the country.

op00to 5y ago
Every person should be able to afford to take care of their dead. Poor people have feelings and deserve urns and remembrance.
- giantg2 5y ago
  True, as I said the root cause is at the system level. But given the system we do live under, I'd rather pay my debts than do anything extra. When I die, donate my organs, donate my body to science, have them pay the cremation when they're done, throw my ashes in the garden.

nunez 5y ago

Hit in the feels, this one. On one hand, I'm saddened and frustrated by the proliferation of layaway and micro-payday lending companies like Klarna and Affirm that are squarely taking advantage of this pattern of reverse economic mobility. (Affirm is even on some NBA jerseys!) On the other hand, those services can be a lifeline for folks with $5 in their account and a need to get a ride home. In this article, Brionna was stuck at work many times because of her and her family not having a car. However, she was working doubles at Kroger and A&W to save up to go to college and move to California in hopes of reversing her family's downward spiral into poverty. What would her expected life outcome be if she could use Klarna (for example) to get a ride and pay for it later when her economic situation is better? (I'm assuming that she would use her earnings to save for her future and that she's financially responsible despite her Dad stealing her money to make his ends meet.) Either way, it sucks that so many people in the world are experiencing these hardships.

jeffrallen 5y ago

I do not want to blame Dave Jr, but in every picture (and caption) he's smoking. If you are $1.35 short to bring your daughter home from standing outside in freezing weather, you definitely cannot afford the thousands of dollars a year a smoking addiction costs. His case worker (whoever signed him up for the free government wifi hotspot) should sign him up for nicotine replacement therapy paid for by Medicaid. Sigh, so sad.

jbirer 5y ago
Poverty usually comes along with many personality traits. Deflecting blame, not reducing habits, self-victimization etc. I feel like the whole picture has not been painted in this story.
Doxin 5y ago
If you're under that much stress you're hardly in a position to add more stress by trying to stop smoking. Yes ideally this person would not be smoking. Expecting stressed people to be paragons of virtue however is unrealistic.

op00to 5y ago

It’s obvious from the comments here that most of the HN population has never been poor.