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> And yet, here you and I are expressing our opinions and having a discussion. You and I haven't said anything controversial. > Care to link to any real cases

• yunohn 5y ago
  > You and I haven't said anything controversial. You’re the one who said anything could be controversial: > where if it happens that something you said, no matter how innocuous, snowballs for whatever reason, you're screwed I like how you “ [...] “ out the words racist/sexist and proceeded to list exactly those kind of cases. > [1] … Bushnell holding company meetings in a hot tub and attempting to coax a female employee to join him All he lost was an award. He’s still a successful millionaire. > [2] “I really did not mean to offend anyone and I really do regret the comment and how it made Adria feel. She had every right to report me to staff, and I defend her position” [3] There’s way too much wrong with Damore’s actions, notwithstanding his actual memo. Do you really think it’s acceptable for someone to circulate such a misinformed screed in a company setting? Plus, all of these people got jobs after the criticism died down. Like literally everyone else who’s ever been “cancelled”.
  • superdisk 5y ago
    > You’re the one who said anything could be controversial Okay, some things carry more risk than others, but the point I was trying to make is that crazy people can go for your neck (and exhort others to do the same) over any random thing, it's not limited to sexism/racism/whatever. > I like how you “ [...] “ out the words [...] I did it to save space, come on now. You're missing the point of the cases I listed. It's not that they were able to recover from the attack, or were rich enough that it didn't materially matter, it's that it shouldn't even be happening in the first place. It seems like you've moved the goalposts from "cancel culture only happens against racists and sexists, and is a natural backlash to that" to "okay, mobs tried to ruin these peoples' livelihoods, but they ultimately got jobs again so it's ok." You're also implying that losing one's job is some sort of no big deal, when in actuality it can change your life. All three cases I listed, IMO, were minor things that spiraled into ridiculous proportions because of mob furor. Addressing each case individually: 1. Okay, Nolan is successful and rich, therefore the attack can't hurt him that much, but what if he wasn't? It doesn't make this sort of behavior okay because he can weather it. 2. The guy apologizing to Adria in public is just him being gracious and trying to move on without poking the beehive again. Nolan did the same about the award. They certainly "learned their lesson" from this debacle I'm sure! 3. Misguided and clumsy maybe, but Damore's motivations weren't sexist and neither was his memo. The fact that he became a public spectacle over it and had his character assassinated is ridiculous, and even if he got a new job, he's always going to be remembered as the sexist behind the Google memo. The point here is that it's not always just cases of people being explicitly racist and getting backlash over it-- it's disproportionate punishment for small slights which causes everyone to be afraid to say anything.
    • yunohn 5y ago
      > the point I was trying to make is that crazy people can go for your neck over any random thing Slippery slope is a really weak argument. > It seems like you've moved the goalposts I didn’t? I showed how all 3 were incidents focused on sexism, with Damore also being racist. > It doesn't make this sort of behavior okay He never lost his job, just an award - in response to actual sexual harassment. How are you seriously asking if backlash is acceptable to his obviously /unacceptable/ behavior? > They certainly "learned their lesson" from this debacle I'm sure! We can argue forever if they really meant it, but how will you know? > Damore's motivations weren't sexist and neither was his memo Alright, that’s your opinion. Clearly others don’t agree with you. That’s the point.