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ZFC is the x86 assembly language of foundations. Saying that ZFC is good enough because you can do all of mathematics in it is like saying that we don't need J
by jules 5y ago
ZFC is the x86 assembly language of foundations.
Saying that ZFC is good enough because you can do all of mathematics in it is like saying that we don't need Java/Rust/Python because x86 assembly is good enough because x86 assembly is Turing complete. True, but that's missing the point of what people are trying to do with higher level languages.
You can theoretically do everything you want in ZFC, but it's low level and a bit outdated and you don't actually want to write formal proofs in it. We know from experience that it is possible to translate the kinds of proofs that people do on paper into formal ZFC proofs, at least in theory. The mathematicians that study ZFC-like foundations are OK with that "in theory"-qualifier and are instead investigating the theoretical properties of the foundations.
The goals of (homotopy) type theory are very different: they are trying to be suitable for actually doing modern mathematics in, and computer proof assistants are being developed that make it possible to actually write down formal proofs in them, in the form of proof code. For this to work it needs to be possible to translate all the kinds of arguments that mathematicians write down on paper into formal proof steps. It is not sufficient to remark that it is theoretically possible to find some kind of translation: it must actually be done for the computer to accept the validity, and the burden must not lie on the mathematician writing down the proof. Instead, the system must make it easy to write down the steps that the mathematician wants to do. One of the kinds of arguments that mathematicians use on paper is that if A is isomorphic to B, then a theorem about A automatically gives you a corresponding theorem about B. Homotopy type theory is trying to formally enable this kind of reasoning.
In summary, the foundations people interested in ZFC have a very different goal than than the foundations people interested in (homotopy) type theory. The fact that the ZFC people are perfectly happy with ZFC and only care about ZFC doesn't mean much. The goals of the type theory people are not achieved by ZFC, not by a long shot.
Note that it is not the case that the general body of mathematicians cares about ZFC and does not care about HoTT. They care neither about HoTT nor about ZFC. The nod to ZFC that mathematicians give when pressed is mere lip service; most mathematicians would not even be able to list the axioms of ZFC. Only foundations people care about ZFC, and the kind of foundations that the ZFC people care about is irrelevant to the practice of general mathematics.
- lapinot 5y ago> ZFC is the x86 assembly language of foundations. > The goals of (homotopy) type theory are very different: they are trying to be suitable for actually doing modern mathematics > Only foundations people care about ZFC, and the kind of foundations that the ZFC people care about is irrelevant to the practice of general mathematics. Exactly this, thanks!