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Kotlin/JS actually does work with Maven [1] – it's just all the MPP and Kotlin/Native stuff that is heavily Gradle-focused. I hope they eventually get to updati

by ptx 5y ago

Kotlin/JS actually does work with Maven [1] – it's just all the MPP and Kotlin/Native stuff that is heavily Gradle-focused. I hope they eventually get to updating the Maven plugins once the multiplatform features stabilize. [1] https://kotlinlang.org/docs/maven.html#attributes-specific-to-js https://kotlinlang.org/docs/maven.html#attributes-specific-t...

jillesvangurp 5y ago
Technically it might work but you are fighting an uphill battle in terms of documentation, stuff that's just not supported at all, bugs, etc. With Kotlin-js especially, I would strongly recommend to not bother with maven. It's a bit cutting edge and you'll have an easier time doing what everybody else is doing. If you go the gradle route, of course use the Kotlin Script variety. Gradle is a bit complex and having your build logic written in Kotlin seems like it is the right thing to do.
- ptx 5y ago
  > having your build logic written in Kotlin seems like it is the right thing to do Yes, in the abstract it does, but the but way Gradle actually does that (evaluating different parts of the program in different special and magical ways) is extremely confusing. And I don't understand how it could possible require the vast amounts of memory it does. Maven is horrifically verbose, but at least its model makes sense after learning a few key concepts and the IDE can help you work with that model without setting fire to the CPU.
  - jillesvangurp 5y ago
    IMHO maven is not something that is actively supported by many people using Kotlin. If it works at all, good for you. Otherwise, you are on your own. I'd advice against using that with Kotlin. I have plenty of experience with maven and with ant before that. No project I've touched in the last six years used either of those other than a few conservative and, frankly, clueless/hopeless customers that I've helped out in some of my freelancing projects. I don't get pedantic about persuading customers that maven is dead as a door nail but there is a pattern of behavior of mostly elderly (i.e. my age) slightly out of their depth CTOs insisting that maven is the way to do things because that's all they know. I'm experienced enough to not fix what ain't broken. A build system either works or it doesn't. And it's not worth my hourly rate arguing against it. Anyway, it's not that hard to get them working regardless of what you use. I'm old enough to remember DOS batch files being an acceptable solution. Actually wasn't that hard to do either. I love bash shell scripts for the same reason. People get hung up on build systems performing magic that they don't understand. Maven is mostly just a really convoluted way to compile Java code which isn't even all that hard when you understand what it does. Having done that with batch files I both appreciate what maven. gradle, etc. do and recognize that it doesn't matter much at all. Gradle does most of the same things as maven with less fuss. I'm still well capable doing the same with just bash and a compiler. But it's not worth my time. These days, I spend more time on figuring out github actions than on gradle. The stuff that gradle does is only a tiny part of the business of doing CI/CD these days. Gradle is the easy part.

by ptx 5y ago

jillesvangurp 5y ago

Technically it might work but you are fighting an uphill battle in terms of documentation, stuff that's just not supported at all, bugs, etc. With Kotlin-js especially, I would strongly recommend to not bother with maven. It's a bit cutting edge and you'll have an easier time doing what everybody else is doing. If you go the gradle route, of course use the Kotlin Script variety. Gradle is a bit complex and having your build logic written in Kotlin seems like it is the right thing to do.

ptx 5y ago
> having your build logic written in Kotlin seems like it is the right thing to do Yes, in the abstract it does, but the but way Gradle actually does that (evaluating different parts of the program in different special and magical ways) is extremely confusing. And I don't understand how it could possible require the vast amounts of memory it does. Maven is horrifically verbose, but at least its model makes sense after learning a few key concepts and the IDE can help you work with that model without setting fire to the CPU.
- jillesvangurp 5y ago
  IMHO maven is not something that is actively supported by many people using Kotlin. If it works at all, good for you. Otherwise, you are on your own. I'd advice against using that with Kotlin. I have plenty of experience with maven and with ant before that. No project I've touched in the last six years used either of those other than a few conservative and, frankly, clueless/hopeless customers that I've helped out in some of my freelancing projects. I don't get pedantic about persuading customers that maven is dead as a door nail but there is a pattern of behavior of mostly elderly (i.e. my age) slightly out of their depth CTOs insisting that maven is the way to do things because that's all they know. I'm experienced enough to not fix what ain't broken. A build system either works or it doesn't. And it's not worth my hourly rate arguing against it. Anyway, it's not that hard to get them working regardless of what you use. I'm old enough to remember DOS batch files being an acceptable solution. Actually wasn't that hard to do either. I love bash shell scripts for the same reason. People get hung up on build systems performing magic that they don't understand. Maven is mostly just a really convoluted way to compile Java code which isn't even all that hard when you understand what it does. Having done that with batch files I both appreciate what maven. gradle, etc. do and recognize that it doesn't matter much at all. Gradle does most of the same things as maven with less fuss. I'm still well capable doing the same with just bash and a compiler. But it's not worth my time. These days, I spend more time on figuring out github actions than on gradle. The stuff that gradle does is only a tiny part of the business of doing CI/CD these days. Gradle is the easy part.