5 ms·

‘In the U.S. the confusing haček is dropped from the z and one is left with just Smrz.’ What’s so confusing about a háček?

timeon 5y ago
Maybe that it was just dropped? Instead of using something like Smrzh. For example Slovenian surname Klobučar -> Klobuchar.
vasco 5y ago
There's not many accents or variations from basic ascii in english, so anything squiggly is usually confusing. In my language we use a few accents and character variations and I often meet Americans who have never seen such character variations like ç and get confused. Perhaps the author had similar experiences.
smcl 5y ago
I think it's confusing to non-speakers of Czech, Slovak, Serbo-Croat and Slovene because they may just not be 100% on how it should be pronounced. Quite a few names get mangled when used in US English even when the letters don't have háčky, čárky etc. Brett Favre becomes "Brett Farve", Weird Al Yankovic's surname is pronounced "Yankovik" (not "Yankovitch"), anything ending in "-owski" is pronounced "OW-skee" (instead of ov-skee).
- parineum 5y ago
  There are generally two choices for immigrants to any country really. You either keep the spelling of your name or you (try to) keep the pronunciation. These days I think the former is the standard but it definitely used to be the latter. Then there's Nguyen. I don't understand.
  - Broken_Hippo 5y ago
    There are generally two choices for immigrants to any country really. You either keep the spelling of your name or you (try to) keep the pronunciation. The first is the only realistic choice in a lot of areas - if you are going from latin alphabet to latin alphabet. I'm not even sure how to spell my name to get a Norwegian-speaking person to pronounce it correctly, honestly, though a few folks that know it is a common American name do well. Even then, I'd have to first change it on my American passport and documents first. It isn't worth the trouble at all.
    - elygre 5y ago
      Hit me! (But seriously, I'm curious. But also, out of privacy, don't.) I presume that your name is then not a typical English name?
      - Broken_Hippo 5y ago
        My name is very, very common! But it starts with an American "a" sound and I'm not even sure there is an equal in Norwegian. Sometimes folks recognize it and pronounce it correctly, especially if they've spent time in the US.
        smcl 5y ago
        Ah I forget sometimes that Americans have an extra pronunciation of "a" - so the name Andy would be "Endy" while in UK English and probably Norwegian, we'd say "Ah-ndy" (while I guess we both say "heart" with the same "ah")
Biganon 5y ago
I read that with an almost sarcastic tone. I don't think the author thinks it's confusing, they're probably mocking the immigration officers who found them confusing and chose to simply erase them. Nowadays, it would be considered disrespectful to call a language feature "confusing" (also it would sound dumb) so I don't think that's what the author is doing.
- Semaphor 5y ago
  > Nowadays, it would be considered disrespectful to call a language feature "confusing" (also it would sound dumb) I disagree. IMO "confusing" is not a value judgement. It’s simply confusing to any person who doesn’t know this accent. I for example would have no idea what the difference between č and c is. That does not mean I lack respect or that I’m dumb, that simply means I don’t know it. I’d expect someone who never encountered German Umlauts to be confused when they encounter Ö. Hell, I’d even expect someone who never saw Latin letters before to be confused about Latin letters.
  - Biganon 5y ago
    OK. That's the difference between "I find it currently confusing because I happen to be confused" and "it is intrinsically confusing".
Broken_Hippo 5y ago
Unless you are exposed to the languages, no one realistically knows how to pronounce them. I'm going to guess, however, that the real reason for dropping them was due to typewriters (and later computers) that simply don't have them as an option. You can't print punctuation and letters that you simply don't have access to. ö, ø, å, æ and the like get dropped as well.
- Symbiote 5y ago
  For the languages using Č etc, you probably also don't know how to pronounce C, W, V, etc. At least writing Č shows it's different to C.

timeon 5y ago

Maybe that it was just dropped? Instead of using something like Smrzh. For example Slovenian surname Klobučar -> Klobuchar.

vasco 5y ago

There's not many accents or variations from basic ascii in english, so anything squiggly is usually confusing. In my language we use a few accents and character variations and I often meet Americans who have never seen such character variations like ç and get confused. Perhaps the author had similar experiences.

smcl 5y ago

I think it's confusing to non-speakers of Czech, Slovak, Serbo-Croat and Slovene because they may just not be 100% on how it should be pronounced. Quite a few names get mangled when used in US English even when the letters don't have háčky, čárky etc. Brett Favre becomes "Brett Farve", Weird Al Yankovic's surname is pronounced "Yankovik" (not "Yankovitch"), anything ending in "-owski" is pronounced "OW-skee" (instead of ov-skee).

parineum 5y ago
There are generally two choices for immigrants to any country really. You either keep the spelling of your name or you (try to) keep the pronunciation. These days I think the former is the standard but it definitely used to be the latter. Then there's Nguyen. I don't understand.
- Broken_Hippo 5y ago
  There are generally two choices for immigrants to any country really. You either keep the spelling of your name or you (try to) keep the pronunciation. The first is the only realistic choice in a lot of areas - if you are going from latin alphabet to latin alphabet. I'm not even sure how to spell my name to get a Norwegian-speaking person to pronounce it correctly, honestly, though a few folks that know it is a common American name do well. Even then, I'd have to first change it on my American passport and documents first. It isn't worth the trouble at all.
  - elygre 5y ago
    Hit me! (But seriously, I'm curious. But also, out of privacy, don't.) I presume that your name is then not a typical English name?
    - Broken_Hippo 5y ago
      My name is very, very common! But it starts with an American "a" sound and I'm not even sure there is an equal in Norwegian. Sometimes folks recognize it and pronounce it correctly, especially if they've spent time in the US.
      - smcl 5y ago
        Ah I forget sometimes that Americans have an extra pronunciation of "a" - so the name Andy would be "Endy" while in UK English and probably Norwegian, we'd say "Ah-ndy" (while I guess we both say "heart" with the same "ah")

Biganon 5y ago

I read that with an almost sarcastic tone. I don't think the author thinks it's confusing, they're probably mocking the immigration officers who found them confusing and chose to simply erase them. Nowadays, it would be considered disrespectful to call a language feature "confusing" (also it would sound dumb) so I don't think that's what the author is doing.

Semaphor 5y ago
> Nowadays, it would be considered disrespectful to call a language feature "confusing" (also it would sound dumb) I disagree. IMO "confusing" is not a value judgement. It’s simply confusing to any person who doesn’t know this accent. I for example would have no idea what the difference between č and c is. That does not mean I lack respect or that I’m dumb, that simply means I don’t know it. I’d expect someone who never encountered German Umlauts to be confused when they encounter Ö. Hell, I’d even expect someone who never saw Latin letters before to be confused about Latin letters.
- Biganon 5y ago
  OK. That's the difference between "I find it currently confusing because I happen to be confused" and "it is intrinsically confusing".

Broken_Hippo 5y ago

Unless you are exposed to the languages, no one realistically knows how to pronounce them. I'm going to guess, however, that the real reason for dropping them was due to typewriters (and later computers) that simply don't have them as an option. You can't print punctuation and letters that you simply don't have access to. ö, ø, å, æ and the like get dropped as well.

Symbiote 5y ago
For the languages using Č etc, you probably also don't know how to pronounce C, W, V, etc. At least writing Č shows it's different to C.