4 ms·

These comments make me feel like I'm getting old, which is weird to me. There are so many proactive comments that remind me of my 18 year old self. Social awkw

by HEmanZ 5y ago

These comments make me feel like I'm getting old, which is weird to me. There are so many proactive comments that remind me of my 18 year old self. Social awkwardness, for me and for a lot of people I know, sort of just vanished with age. - The same kind of weird, unexplainable, vicious attitude that passes for cool among teenagers and some early adults fades for most people. The people who still adhere to that code go off and form their own cliques and you just don't see them anymore. - Real adulthood is simpler socially. With personal stability (job, hobbies, network, etc.) and age you care less and less what people think and put less emphasis on what people think about you. - At the same time, you judge people less and less because, what does your judgment really matter? And when you judge people less you judge yourself less. - A lot of awkwardness is a function of trying hard to fit a social shape and failing. When you let go of most social expectations of yourself and others, in my experience mostly because of age and stability, you lose the awkwardness. If you really need help with social anxiety I have heard that there are psychologists who are good at treating it, although I have never used one myself. Take some comfort in knowing that it will probably pass with time.

FlyingCapybara 5y ago
It reminds me an interview of the "Groland" creators, the best trash and vulgar comedy tv show in France. They use a lot of elderly actors, playing insane characters, lots of nudity etc... There was a question about the choice of using so much elderly actors, they said "they can do almost anything, they have nothing to lose". Nailed it.
baby 5y ago
I was watching Euphoria these days, and reading your comment reminded me of a thought I had watching that. School is like prison. People are forced to spend most of their living hours with one another for long periods of time. So like in prison, weird social dynamic develops itself. Once you're out of prison, everything is much smoother. You can simply exit any toxic situations.
- stickfigure 5y ago
  The mention of prison is a cue to link PG's Nerds essay: http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html That essay was my first exposure to PG/YC/HN. At the time I was old enough that it felt like someone clearly articulating my past rather than giving me guidance for the future. I think I would have found it comforting in the 80s if it had been written then.
- goy 5y ago
  I agree with you. In school environment, i usually have more difficulty with things like hanging around with people, speaking in public (panic!!!),... Thinking of dropping because I am tired to always be the "guy who sucks" and crack under exam stress even if I am doing well when it comes to solve real problems.
- Kye 5y ago
  That's contrary to everything I've heard about having a criminal record. Especially a felony, which is usually what prison is for.
- eBombzor 5y ago
  Can you exit toxic situations just like that? If you got a toxic workplace and the job market has been tough... it eerily starts to feel like school again.
- kiliantics 5y ago
  The prison as a distilled form of the structure of most social institutions is a big idea in the work put forward by Michel Foucault
biztos 5y ago
> weird, unexplainable, vicious attitude that passes for cool Or they just migrate to Wall Street?
leke 5y ago
I know what you mean about getting old and things like this vanishing with age. My oldest has just turned 18 and it's like looking back at an awkward snapshot of yourself.
emersauce 5y ago
@HEmanZ Your point about reducing judgement resonates with me. I noticed that I rarely think negatively of people who appear awkward, and always admire those who appear to accept their awkwardness and move on rather than fighting hard to rid themselves of it for the sake of others' preferences. Recognizing that I don't judge other people's awkward moments allows me to apply that same acceptance to my own imperfections. I view myself through my own eyes, not what I think others see when they look at me. Sometimes I have embarrassing moments that high school me (I'm finishing undergrad now) would have probably cried over, but now I give myself a big mental hug, have a laugh-- there is always humor to be found--and then move on. The more I accept my rough edges, the easier it gets to move on to things that are more important than my lack of social graces. And I think this nonjudgmental attitude is actually making those painfully awkward moments much, much rarer. I could try very hard to change my behavior and stop being awkward. Maybe I would never have an awkward moment again. But unless I relax the immature impulse to judge, I would always be haunted by memories of those past failures. Letting go of those harsh judgements lightened my load a whole lot more than any behavioral change regime ever could.
catsarebetter 5y ago
Yes this geez why did this become a thread of using MDMA or not, HN really loves to get into the nitty gritty of every problem doesn't it
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
sizzle 5y ago
I think having kids forces you out of your shell for their sake, you have to be able to speak your mind to strangers, etc. and it becomes easier talking to others to get things done.
- mbg721 5y ago
  Having kids at least gives you a sort of pass for saying ridiculous things in public, and doing otherwise socially frowned-upon things generally.
johnnyanmac 5y ago
>Take some comfort in knowing that it will probably pass with time. I mean, it does pass with time, but it's not like you magically become less shy. For me it was the transition to college. I no longer had parents to order food for me, professors won't go out of their way to make sure you get homework in on time or even show up for class, schools don't just make up social events for you, etc. You find you gotta literally step outside your comfort zone because society very much does not care about you cooping up in your apartment building 24/7 (as long as you're paying). And yes, to some extent it does help that the world metaphorically gets bigger in adult hood. When your social circle is a few hundreds people in grade school, their perception of you matters a lot. When in college it expands to thousands of people, 99% of which you'll never converse with, and larger still in society where you ironically feel more lonely than ever because very few people will come up to you to chat. --- I agree it will pass in time, but it's not just something you grow out of. You either get plenty of practive with adulthood, or you end up as a recluse that is deemed incompatitble with society. Fight or flight. If they didn't get that same practice I did, they have to undergo it now (or perhaps consult a therapist if the anxiety is truly that severe. Unlikely, but it very well could require some clinical solutions.). It gets easier: https://youtu.be/S-ixV6nV0HU?t=22 https://youtu.be/S-ixV6nV0HU?t=22
seanw444 5y ago
I'm only in my early 20s, and the social awkwardness I sometimes felt in high school is mostly gone. I mean sure, there are still some awkward moments here and there. There probably will always be those few times. Unless you're a robot, you'll never not feel anxiety. I concur though: I'm not even "old" at all, just a couple years out of high school, and speaking to people even in difficult situations feels a lot easier. So +1 to this answer. Getting older tremendously helps.
- Viliam1234 5y ago
  Your experience still allows two interpretations: it could be either a consequence of getting older, or a consequence of no longer being at high school.
plutonorm 5y ago
Age has also brought a deeper understanding for me. I was shy because I was very sensitive to loud noises and bright lights - they overwhelm me. Not in a psychological sense but in a raw sensory overload type way. The gain on my brain is set quite high and the hustle and bustle of school completely overwhelmed me everyday, year after year. That led me to believe I was socially completely incapable - which led to social anxiety. Once I was able to understand and not shame myself for needing quiet everything started to change. I now know that I fear parties and pubs not because of the people so much as because of the overstimulation. The social anxiety is an extra layer over that - and that falls away with age and acceptance of my biological nature. Do you lose the ability to think and speak in social settings? Like everything becomes utterly confusing? Does it not happen in more intimate gatherings - low light, small room only a few people even though they are strangers? Then you might be dealing not with social anxiety, but with overstimulation. Overstimulation cannot be beaten, it is a raw innate characteristic of your mind, great for some things bad for others.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
brightball 5y ago
Yep. Just be kind to people and most everything else takes care of itself with time. The less you’re affected by negativity from other people the more confident you become in yourself, which really becomes self fulfilling.
Viliam1234 5y ago
Maybe we shouldn't take shyness for given, but ask what causes it... so that we can avoid that thing, when possible. One of the causes is people who bully you, or perhaps they don't bully you at the current moment, but they make it obvious that they could if you did something they don't approve of. So you spend a lot of thought worrying about not atracting their attention. Another cause is lack of actually useful things to do, so people only compare themselves based on their popularity. If you suck at popularity contests, you are at the bottom of the social ladder. There is no way to compensate your lack of popularity by e.g. doing something that matters, because no one cares about that. If you are adult and make enough money, you can make these problems go away. (Though you need to realize that you have this option; otherwise your own mind can keep you in prison for years.) Move away from the assholes; find friends who are nice. If something bad happens at your job, quit and find another one. Do things that you consider meaningful, and spend time with people who share your values. And then at some moment you may look at the kids who were cool at high school, and realize that many of them turned out to be quite dysfunctional in real life. The greatest rebels have overdosed on drugs and died. The former playboys are divorced, and now they need to work two jobs in order to pay the child support. The ones who said the most impressive things... they still keep saying the same things, except no one is impressed anymore, because they see it as empty bullshit. The former shy kids are the ones doing interesting things now. If you do something good, you get rewarded. It may be a social reward, from people who care about the same things. If you are lucky, there is also a financial reward. You realize the haters don't really matter; the dogs bark but the caravan goes on, and you are now a part of a caravan. Suddenly, there is nothing to be shy about. Sure, there are still people who dislike you and dislike the things you do, etc. They just don't matter anymore.
- jsnodlin 5y ago

by HEmanZ 5y ago

FlyingCapybara 5y ago

It reminds me an interview of the "Groland" creators, the best trash and vulgar comedy tv show in France. They use a lot of elderly actors, playing insane characters, lots of nudity etc... There was a question about the choice of using so much elderly actors, they said "they can do almost anything, they have nothing to lose". Nailed it.

baby 5y ago

I was watching Euphoria these days, and reading your comment reminded me of a thought I had watching that. School is like prison. People are forced to spend most of their living hours with one another for long periods of time. So like in prison, weird social dynamic develops itself. Once you're out of prison, everything is much smoother. You can simply exit any toxic situations.

stickfigure 5y ago
The mention of prison is a cue to link PG's Nerds essay: http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html http://www.paulgraham.com/nerds.html That essay was my first exposure to PG/YC/HN. At the time I was old enough that it felt like someone clearly articulating my past rather than giving me guidance for the future. I think I would have found it comforting in the 80s if it had been written then.
goy 5y ago
I agree with you. In school environment, i usually have more difficulty with things like hanging around with people, speaking in public (panic!!!),... Thinking of dropping because I am tired to always be the "guy who sucks" and crack under exam stress even if I am doing well when it comes to solve real problems.
Kye 5y ago
That's contrary to everything I've heard about having a criminal record. Especially a felony, which is usually what prison is for.
eBombzor 5y ago
Can you exit toxic situations just like that? If you got a toxic workplace and the job market has been tough... it eerily starts to feel like school again.
kiliantics 5y ago
The prison as a distilled form of the structure of most social institutions is a big idea in the work put forward by Michel Foucault

biztos 5y ago

> weird, unexplainable, vicious attitude that passes for cool Or they just migrate to Wall Street?

leke 5y ago

I know what you mean about getting old and things like this vanishing with age. My oldest has just turned 18 and it's like looking back at an awkward snapshot of yourself.

emersauce 5y ago

@HEmanZ Your point about reducing judgement resonates with me. I noticed that I rarely think negatively of people who appear awkward, and always admire those who appear to accept their awkwardness and move on rather than fighting hard to rid themselves of it for the sake of others' preferences. Recognizing that I don't judge other people's awkward moments allows me to apply that same acceptance to my own imperfections. I view myself through my own eyes, not what I think others see when they look at me. Sometimes I have embarrassing moments that high school me (I'm finishing undergrad now) would have probably cried over, but now I give myself a big mental hug, have a laugh-- there is always humor to be found--and then move on. The more I accept my rough edges, the easier it gets to move on to things that are more important than my lack of social graces. And I think this nonjudgmental attitude is actually making those painfully awkward moments much, much rarer. I could try very hard to change my behavior and stop being awkward. Maybe I would never have an awkward moment again. But unless I relax the immature impulse to judge, I would always be haunted by memories of those past failures. Letting go of those harsh judgements lightened my load a whole lot more than any behavioral change regime ever could.

catsarebetter 5y ago

Yes this geez why did this become a thread of using MDMA or not, HN really loves to get into the nitty gritty of every problem doesn't it

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

sizzle 5y ago

I think having kids forces you out of your shell for their sake, you have to be able to speak your mind to strangers, etc. and it becomes easier talking to others to get things done.

mbg721 5y ago
Having kids at least gives you a sort of pass for saying ridiculous things in public, and doing otherwise socially frowned-upon things generally.

johnnyanmac 5y ago

>Take some comfort in knowing that it will probably pass with time. I mean, it does pass with time, but it's not like you magically become less shy. For me it was the transition to college. I no longer had parents to order food for me, professors won't go out of their way to make sure you get homework in on time or even show up for class, schools don't just make up social events for you, etc. You find you gotta literally step outside your comfort zone because society very much does not care about you cooping up in your apartment building 24/7 (as long as you're paying). And yes, to some extent it does help that the world metaphorically gets bigger in adult hood. When your social circle is a few hundreds people in grade school, their perception of you matters a lot. When in college it expands to thousands of people, 99% of which you'll never converse with, and larger still in society where you ironically feel more lonely than ever because very few people will come up to you to chat. --- I agree it will pass in time, but it's not just something you grow out of. You either get plenty of practive with adulthood, or you end up as a recluse that is deemed incompatitble with society. Fight or flight. If they didn't get that same practice I did, they have to undergo it now (or perhaps consult a therapist if the anxiety is truly that severe. Unlikely, but it very well could require some clinical solutions.). It gets easier: https://youtu.be/S-ixV6nV0HU?t=22 https://youtu.be/S-ixV6nV0HU?t=22

seanw444 5y ago

I'm only in my early 20s, and the social awkwardness I sometimes felt in high school is mostly gone. I mean sure, there are still some awkward moments here and there. There probably will always be those few times. Unless you're a robot, you'll never not feel anxiety. I concur though: I'm not even "old" at all, just a couple years out of high school, and speaking to people even in difficult situations feels a lot easier. So +1 to this answer. Getting older tremendously helps.

Viliam1234 5y ago
Your experience still allows two interpretations: it could be either a consequence of getting older, or a consequence of no longer being at high school.

plutonorm 5y ago

Age has also brought a deeper understanding for me. I was shy because I was very sensitive to loud noises and bright lights - they overwhelm me. Not in a psychological sense but in a raw sensory overload type way. The gain on my brain is set quite high and the hustle and bustle of school completely overwhelmed me everyday, year after year. That led me to believe I was socially completely incapable - which led to social anxiety. Once I was able to understand and not shame myself for needing quiet everything started to change. I now know that I fear parties and pubs not because of the people so much as because of the overstimulation. The social anxiety is an extra layer over that - and that falls away with age and acceptance of my biological nature. Do you lose the ability to think and speak in social settings? Like everything becomes utterly confusing? Does it not happen in more intimate gatherings - low light, small room only a few people even though they are strangers? Then you might be dealing not with social anxiety, but with overstimulation. Overstimulation cannot be beaten, it is a raw innate characteristic of your mind, great for some things bad for others.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

brightball 5y ago

Yep. Just be kind to people and most everything else takes care of itself with time. The less you’re affected by negativity from other people the more confident you become in yourself, which really becomes self fulfilling.

Viliam1234 5y ago

Maybe we shouldn't take shyness for given, but ask what causes it... so that we can avoid that thing, when possible. One of the causes is people who bully you, or perhaps they don't bully you at the current moment, but they make it obvious that they could if you did something they don't approve of. So you spend a lot of thought worrying about not atracting their attention. Another cause is lack of actually useful things to do, so people only compare themselves based on their popularity. If you suck at popularity contests, you are at the bottom of the social ladder. There is no way to compensate your lack of popularity by e.g. doing something that matters, because no one cares about that. If you are adult and make enough money, you can make these problems go away. (Though you need to realize that you have this option; otherwise your own mind can keep you in prison for years.) Move away from the assholes; find friends who are nice. If something bad happens at your job, quit and find another one. Do things that you consider meaningful, and spend time with people who share your values. And then at some moment you may look at the kids who were cool at high school, and realize that many of them turned out to be quite dysfunctional in real life. The greatest rebels have overdosed on drugs and died. The former playboys are divorced, and now they need to work two jobs in order to pay the child support. The ones who said the most impressive things... they still keep saying the same things, except no one is impressed anymore, because they see it as empty bullshit. The former shy kids are the ones doing interesting things now. If you do something good, you get rewarded. It may be a social reward, from people who care about the same things. If you are lucky, there is also a financial reward. You realize the haters don't really matter; the dogs bark but the caravan goes on, and you are now a part of a caravan. Suddenly, there is nothing to be shy about. Sure, there are still people who dislike you and dislike the things you do, etc. They just don't matter anymore.

jsnodlin 5y ago