5 ms·

It's been awhile since I've seen this passage. I forgot how much of the bible is a diss track on the pagans. > Do not be like them, for your Father knows what

by CSSer 5y ago

It's been awhile since I've seen this passage. I forgot how much of the bible is a diss track on the pagans. > Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him. I find this bit in particular pretty humorous because it makes it sound like god's voicemail inbox is overflowing and he doesn't have time for your shit.

TimTheTinker 5y ago
The point is that God is a Father - like a dad one has a great relationship with. No one with a good relationship with their dad spins a request wheel at him, or says the same thing 100 times in a row to him. If you ever did so, there's something wrong in your relationship with your dad -- same with God. So in that respect, a Christian's relationship with God ought to me markedly different from how many other religions relate to the gods they worship.
- gumby 5y ago
  > No one with a good relationship with their dad spins a request wheel at him... This comment makes me think you've never had a toddler, much less a teen.
  - ilammy 5y ago
    The point being: you're supposed to grow up eventually.
- falcolas 5y ago
  > The point is that God is a Father - like a dad one has a great relationship with. Tell that to Job. Whose "Father" tortured him to win a bet.
  - dddddaviddddd 5y ago
    The author of Job and the authors of Matthew and Luke obviously disagree about what kind of relationship humanity supposedly has with God. I think it's important to see the Bible as a collection of books from different times and places, each with their own rhetorical goals.
    - falcolas 5y ago
      > I think it's important to see the Bible as a collection of books from different times and places, each with their own rhetorical goals. And yet that's not how the bible is taught at a vast majority of churches. "The bible is the word of God. Jesus changed his relationship with us, which is why his behavior is different between the old and new Testament. End of discussion." I still recall the lecture I got when I once questioned whether Genesis was an allegory for the creation of the universe over billions of years. "No, it was 7 days, exactly as the bible says."
      - cbfrench 5y ago
        I mean, that’s how it’s taught in a majority of evangelical churches, which is what I gather you mean. St. Augustine was pretty clear that it wasn’t a literal seven days, and Pope Pius XII in Humani generis accepted that human evolution was a thing. So, granting the numerical superiority of the Catholic tradition, not a majority of churches.
        falcolas 5y ago
        Ironically (or not) I was lectured by a Catholic. So, regardless of how the Saints and Popes tell it, if it goes against the local priest's beliefs, it's not going to be reflected in the church. The evidence is plentiful too: look at how the individual churches have taken Pope Benedict's tolerance of previously taboo individuals (homosexuals, for example). Something else I get to hear about at holiday parties.
        cbfrench 5y ago
        Yeah, that’s about right, unfortunately. Your average local priest may not wish to (or does not wish to) know about the broader sweep of tradition. So, whatever he believes becomes the version of the tradition you encounter. I say all of this as an Anglican priest, so I’m seriously sorry that’s been your experience. Generally one hopes the Catholics (at least their clergy) are at least a bit more familiar with their own teachings than the evangelical fundamentalists.
  - woodruffw 5y ago
    The lord of the Hebrew Bible was clearly running on the testnet, and should not have been used for actual transactions.
    - Ekaros 5y ago
      Or an pretty horrible character, giving horrible advice... Generally not a great moral beacon, with all things done and all things advocated like bashing children against rocks and so on... Then again, what can you expect from ancient tribal religion...
  - krapp 5y ago
    And then when God explains himself, he goes off on a tangent about this awesome dragon OC of his and how badass it is.
  - Thorentis 5y ago
    God wasn't the one doing the torturing. Yes, you could debate whether an omnipotent God is actually responsible for every single thing that happens given He can intervene. But I don't think anybody who takes Job literally simultaneously believes that God is the one doing the torturing.
    - falcolas 5y ago
      "I'm sorry, son. Of course I have the power to stop all these bad things from happening to you (I'm God, duh), but you see I have this bet going with the serpent about how you'll react to having terrible things happen to you, so no." I'd like to believe it's a generally accepted truth that if you have the knowledge that something really, really bad's happening (by way of Job praying, the topic of this entire thread), the power to do something about it, and have been doing things about it before, and yet refuse because of a wager, YTA. In such a situation, whether it's God or the world doing the torture is kinda splitting hairs.
    - tacon 5y ago
      >anybody who takes Job literally “My point, once again, is not that those ancient people told literal stories and we are now smart enough to take them symbolically, but that they told them symbolically and we are now dumb enough to take them literally.”[0] [0] https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/816617-my-point-once-again-is-not-that-those-ancient-people https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/816617-my-point-once-again-...
      - falcolas 5y ago
        Even symbolically, Job is one dark tale. The distance faith will carry someone is tremendous because they believe that the bad things happening to them happen for a reason. And even if it's a bad reason, there's still the promise of rewards and redemption afterwards.
gumby 5y ago
> It's been awhile since I've seen this passage. I forgot how much of the bible is a diss track on the pagans. Ideal marketing is both puffing your product and dissing the competition. The old testament is really full of the latter...the new testament has less. > > Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him. So why pray at all?
- hprotagonist 5y ago
  >So why pray at all? so that you learn what you need, too. and, ultimately, to say "thanks". (same question asked differently: "why meditate?" "why mindfulness?")
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- falcolas 5y ago
  Yeah, things get a bit weird when you make your God omniscient. Even though I know exactly what you need and whether or not you'll pray for it, you still need to pray for what you need, but you might or might not get it based on my whim (even though I know my answer before you ever identify your need), whether or not you pray.
- jordanmoconnor 5y ago
  I've thought about this specific question a lot and I think it comes down to humility. Being in a place of needing something (and acknowledging that fact) is the opposite of pride. Pride is something the Bible mentions many times as something detrimental: “Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall.” Proverbs 16:18
- tekknik 5y ago
  Why are you here? You’re spreading hate because you don’t believe. It’s fine if you don’t believe, but you have to spread your hate to the rest of us? Could you not have simply moved passed this post?
swat535 5y ago
As a Catholic, your hour of prayer is supposed to be reserved for glorying God, giving thanks and showing respect. It's not an hour spent with a list of "requests" , this is not what religious people do. There can be moments of personal intentions (both during vigils and prayers) but most of the time people offer them for health and well being of others. We are not supposed to really care much about earthly possessions as our hearts should belong to God first and our neighbors second (Matthew 22:36-40).

by CSSer 5y ago

TimTheTinker 5y ago

The point is that God is a Father - like a dad one has a great relationship with. No one with a good relationship with their dad spins a request wheel at him, or says the same thing 100 times in a row to him. If you ever did so, there's something wrong in your relationship with your dad -- same with God. So in that respect, a Christian's relationship with God ought to me markedly different from how many other religions relate to the gods they worship.

gumby 5y ago
> No one with a good relationship with their dad spins a request wheel at him... This comment makes me think you've never had a toddler, much less a teen.
- ilammy 5y ago
  The point being: you're supposed to grow up eventually.
falcolas 5y ago
> The point is that God is a Father - like a dad one has a great relationship with. Tell that to Job. Whose "Father" tortured him to win a bet.
- dddddaviddddd 5y ago
  The author of Job and the authors of Matthew and Luke obviously disagree about what kind of relationship humanity supposedly has with God. I think it's important to see the Bible as a collection of books from different times and places, each with their own rhetorical goals.
  - falcolas 5y ago
    > I think it's important to see the Bible as a collection of books from different times and places, each with their own rhetorical goals. And yet that's not how the bible is taught at a vast majority of churches. "The bible is the word of God. Jesus changed his relationship with us, which is why his behavior is different between the old and new Testament. End of discussion." I still recall the lecture I got when I once questioned whether Genesis was an allegory for the creation of the universe over billions of years. "No, it was 7 days, exactly as the bible says."
    - cbfrench 5y ago
      I mean, that’s how it’s taught in a majority of evangelical churches, which is what I gather you mean. St. Augustine was pretty clear that it wasn’t a literal seven days, and Pope Pius XII in Humani generis accepted that human evolution was a thing. So, granting the numerical superiority of the Catholic tradition, not a majority of churches.
      - falcolas 5y ago
        Ironically (or not) I was lectured by a Catholic. So, regardless of how the Saints and Popes tell it, if it goes against the local priest's beliefs, it's not going to be reflected in the church. The evidence is plentiful too: look at how the individual churches have taken Pope Benedict's tolerance of previously taboo individuals (homosexuals, for example). Something else I get to hear about at holiday parties.
        cbfrench 5y ago
        Yeah, that’s about right, unfortunately. Your average local priest may not wish to (or does not wish to) know about the broader sweep of tradition. So, whatever he believes becomes the version of the tradition you encounter. I say all of this as an Anglican priest, so I’m seriously sorry that’s been your experience. Generally one hopes the Catholics (at least their clergy) are at least a bit more familiar with their own teachings than the evangelical fundamentalists.
- woodruffw 5y ago
  The lord of the Hebrew Bible was clearly running on the testnet, and should not have been used for actual transactions.
  - Ekaros 5y ago
    Or an pretty horrible character, giving horrible advice... Generally not a great moral beacon, with all things done and all things advocated like bashing children against rocks and so on... Then again, what can you expect from ancient tribal religion...
- krapp 5y ago
  And then when God explains himself, he goes off on a tangent about this awesome dragon OC of his and how badass it is.
- Thorentis 5y ago
  God wasn't the one doing the torturing. Yes, you could debate whether an omnipotent God is actually responsible for every single thing that happens given He can intervene. But I don't think anybody who takes Job literally simultaneously believes that God is the one doing the torturing.
  - falcolas 5y ago
    "I'm sorry, son. Of course I have the power to stop all these bad things from happening to you (I'm God, duh), but you see I have this bet going with the serpent about how you'll react to having terrible things happen to you, so no." I'd like to believe it's a generally accepted truth that if you have the knowledge that something really, really bad's happening (by way of Job praying, the topic of this entire thread), the power to do something about it, and have been doing things about it before, and yet refuse because of a wager, YTA. In such a situation, whether it's God or the world doing the torture is kinda splitting hairs.
  - tacon 5y ago
    >anybody who takes Job literally “My point, once again, is not that those ancient people told literal stories and we are now smart enough to take them symbolically, but that they told them symbolically and we are now dumb enough to take them literally.”[0] [0] https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/816617-my-point-once-again-is-not-that-those-ancient-people https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/816617-my-point-once-again-...
    - falcolas 5y ago
      Even symbolically, Job is one dark tale. The distance faith will carry someone is tremendous because they believe that the bad things happening to them happen for a reason. And even if it's a bad reason, there's still the promise of rewards and redemption afterwards.

gumby 5y ago

> It's been awhile since I've seen this passage. I forgot how much of the bible is a diss track on the pagans. Ideal marketing is both puffing your product and dissing the competition. The old testament is really full of the latter...the new testament has less. > > Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him. So why pray at all?

hprotagonist 5y ago
>So why pray at all? so that you learn what you need, too. and, ultimately, to say "thanks". (same question asked differently: "why meditate?" "why mindfulness?")
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
falcolas 5y ago
Yeah, things get a bit weird when you make your God omniscient. Even though I know exactly what you need and whether or not you'll pray for it, you still need to pray for what you need, but you might or might not get it based on my whim (even though I know my answer before you ever identify your need), whether or not you pray.
jordanmoconnor 5y ago
I've thought about this specific question a lot and I think it comes down to humility. Being in a place of needing something (and acknowledging that fact) is the opposite of pride. Pride is something the Bible mentions many times as something detrimental: “Pride goes before destruction, a haughty spirit before a fall.” Proverbs 16:18
tekknik 5y ago
Why are you here? You’re spreading hate because you don’t believe. It’s fine if you don’t believe, but you have to spread your hate to the rest of us? Could you not have simply moved passed this post?

swat535 5y ago

As a Catholic, your hour of prayer is supposed to be reserved for glorying God, giving thanks and showing respect. It's not an hour spent with a list of "requests" , this is not what religious people do. There can be moments of personal intentions (both during vigils and prayers) but most of the time people offer them for health and well being of others. We are not supposed to really care much about earthly possessions as our hearts should belong to God first and our neighbors second (Matthew 22:36-40).