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I would argue it's understood poorly and discussed in an unhelpful way. My own struggles have taught me that at least in some cases it seems to be more like a

I would argue it's understood poorly and discussed in an unhelpful way. My own struggles have taught me that at least in some cases it seems to be more like a "mental obesity" than a "mental disease". It's not necessarily that there's something wrong with the person's brain, but that their depression/anxiety is a perfectly normal reaction to a lifestyle that's toxic. If you never take the time to do the activities you really, truly enjoy (by this I mean the type of thing where afterwards you feel better and think to yourself "that was great; I'm so glad I took the time out of my day to do that" - not necessarily things that are hyper-engaging), don't eat vegetables and fruit every day, sleep poorly, live alone, don't make the time to socialise with others and are constantly surrounded by a hostile environment (cluttered, tripping over things, disgustingly/unpleasantly unclean sights and smells), then the depression is just a "healthy" response.

all_factz 5y ago
This is a bit of a chicken-or-egg problem. If you’re depressed, you don’t have the energy to do the beneficial things you’re recommending above. So I come back to the idea that you need to look inward, into the core causes of your depression, and make some sort of peace with them — freeing you to move forward. Therapy helps.
- AussieWog93 5y ago
  >If you’re depressed, you don’t have the energy to do the beneficial things you’re recommending above. That's just not true. You can't do all of them, of course, but you can take one step at a time over the course of months/years. It's a positive feedback loop that really does help. >If you’re depressed, you don’t have the energy to do the beneficial things you’re recommending above. Again, I'm not sure this is true either (at least in the general case). For many people, there's no obvious cause for their depression, but they "just are". There's no peace that needs to be made or trauma that needs integrating, just learning to live life in a way that isn't toxic to your mind. For me, therapy and mindfulness meditation were both beyond useless. Learning to stop over-intellectualising everything and implementing strategies to make mundane, day-to-day life more pleasant and wholesome has done wonders.
  - haswell 5y ago
    This comment highlights just how different each person’s journey is. > For many people, there's no obvious cause for their depression, but they "just are" And for many people, their depression can be traced back to specific events or situations. Mine: C-PTSD from a pretty screwed up childhood. Most people I know would never know, but I’m working to build an entirely new way to frame the world and my responses to it. I appreciate that not everyone has the same background, but what I’ve learned through my journey is that there are more people with similar challenges than I ever realized. And in a way that’s the theme of this thread. > You can't do all of them, of course, but you can take one step at a time over the course of months/years The key here is the word years. At least for a period of time, one step at a time is mostly indistinguishable from “don’t have the energy to do the beneficial things”. Yes, one can be making progress, but it often takes some time to see the results. > Learning to stop over-intellectualising everything And this characterization of the problem is exactly the kind of undercurrent that continues to stigmatize mental health issues, IMO. “Just stop over intellectualizing everything” is not going to help someone who’s currently “in it”. Certainly not going to help if someone is at the point of being suicidal. > For me, therapy and mindfulness meditation were both beyond useless.” And for me, therapy probably saved my life. > and implementing strategies to make mundane, day-to-day life more pleasant No offense, but this is “rest of the fucking owl” stuff. I’m pretty sure most people focused on improving their depression want this. The answer is not just “implement strategies” any more than a novice painter’s journey to master is to “paint better”. The process is often long, slow, and pretty difficult.
    - AussieWog93 5y ago
      >And for many people, their depression can be traced back to specific events or situations. It isn't an either-or situation. As you said, everyone has a different experience. When I spoke to professionals or listened to others having the "mental health conversation" the focus was entirely on dealing with trauma or, if there was no trauma, taking antidepressants because clearly my brain was broken. Being told to "draw the rest of the fucking owl" was one of the most eye-opening and empowering things I heard, precisely because the conversation focuses on people with experiences similar to yours. I was told by society and doctors that I was a victim of my neurochemistry and that could never change. Turns out I was just bad at looking after myself as an adult. I am now less bad at it, and one day hope to even be good.

all_factz 5y ago

This is a bit of a chicken-or-egg problem. If you’re depressed, you don’t have the energy to do the beneficial things you’re recommending above. So I come back to the idea that you need to look inward, into the core causes of your depression, and make some sort of peace with them — freeing you to move forward. Therapy helps.

AussieWog93 5y ago
>If you’re depressed, you don’t have the energy to do the beneficial things you’re recommending above. That's just not true. You can't do all of them, of course, but you can take one step at a time over the course of months/years. It's a positive feedback loop that really does help. >If you’re depressed, you don’t have the energy to do the beneficial things you’re recommending above. Again, I'm not sure this is true either (at least in the general case). For many people, there's no obvious cause for their depression, but they "just are". There's no peace that needs to be made or trauma that needs integrating, just learning to live life in a way that isn't toxic to your mind. For me, therapy and mindfulness meditation were both beyond useless. Learning to stop over-intellectualising everything and implementing strategies to make mundane, day-to-day life more pleasant and wholesome has done wonders.
- haswell 5y ago
  This comment highlights just how different each person’s journey is. > For many people, there's no obvious cause for their depression, but they "just are" And for many people, their depression can be traced back to specific events or situations. Mine: C-PTSD from a pretty screwed up childhood. Most people I know would never know, but I’m working to build an entirely new way to frame the world and my responses to it. I appreciate that not everyone has the same background, but what I’ve learned through my journey is that there are more people with similar challenges than I ever realized. And in a way that’s the theme of this thread. > You can't do all of them, of course, but you can take one step at a time over the course of months/years The key here is the word years. At least for a period of time, one step at a time is mostly indistinguishable from “don’t have the energy to do the beneficial things”. Yes, one can be making progress, but it often takes some time to see the results. > Learning to stop over-intellectualising everything And this characterization of the problem is exactly the kind of undercurrent that continues to stigmatize mental health issues, IMO. “Just stop over intellectualizing everything” is not going to help someone who’s currently “in it”. Certainly not going to help if someone is at the point of being suicidal. > For me, therapy and mindfulness meditation were both beyond useless.” And for me, therapy probably saved my life. > and implementing strategies to make mundane, day-to-day life more pleasant No offense, but this is “rest of the fucking owl” stuff. I’m pretty sure most people focused on improving their depression want this. The answer is not just “implement strategies” any more than a novice painter’s journey to master is to “paint better”. The process is often long, slow, and pretty difficult.
  - AussieWog93 5y ago
    >And for many people, their depression can be traced back to specific events or situations. It isn't an either-or situation. As you said, everyone has a different experience. When I spoke to professionals or listened to others having the "mental health conversation" the focus was entirely on dealing with trauma or, if there was no trauma, taking antidepressants because clearly my brain was broken. Being told to "draw the rest of the fucking owl" was one of the most eye-opening and empowering things I heard, precisely because the conversation focuses on people with experiences similar to yours. I was told by society and doctors that I was a victim of my neurochemistry and that could never change. Turns out I was just bad at looking after myself as an adult. I am now less bad at it, and one day hope to even be good.