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Throwing myself out there, getting rejected and snubbed otherwise slapped around a lot .. until I slowly started to figure out how to observe "normal, healthy"

Throwing myself out there, getting rejected and snubbed otherwise slapped around a lot .. until I slowly started to figure out how to observe "normal, healthy" people and learn from them. Among the things we learn is -- that we are much more "plastic" (and able to change by sheer force of will) than we initially thought. Things like hygiene, posture, clarity of speech (such that people can at least understand us) and tonal confidence are, for many of us, simply matters of bad habit that can be unlearned and their negative effects reversed, over time. The more we improve ourselves in these basic areas, the better we feel about ourselves... and soon enough people notice, and over time it becomes not only gets easier but starts to feel natural. Not instantly but... over time. Until the day comes when you stop thinking (so much) about how "awkward" you are, and instead you're thinking about your new life, your new friends, your hot new relationship, your awesome new day job (if that matters), etc. That and two other tips: (1) Taking the plunge, and moving to a totally new geographic area (or even just getting a different, much better place in the city where you live) can do wonders; as does (2) Paradoxically, not giving an F about what other people think. That is to say, acknowledging that it matters to some degree, on a certain level ... but in the scheme of things, it also just doesn't matter. Which helps you relax and feel confident (which does a lot to ameliorate the negative perceptions people have of you).

varrock 5y ago
Ironically, I have done exactly the two tips you mentioned, and I can confidently say that my life has changed drastically. In fact, so much so, that when I catch up with people who knew me even two years ago, they usually make a comment. One thing I was initially afraid of when deciding to move was “running away from my problems” only to realize I’m in the exact same situation as before. Well, that was actually very true. I still felt like the same “awkward” person despite moving across the country. But here’s the difference; I was actually motivated to fix it. Being in a new city opened my eyes to how much I wanted to explore, but also how much I was holding myself back. Ever since moving, I’ve lost my fear of being myself, have a partner, and found a higher paying job. My main point here is that while you can’t run away from your true inner self, a new environment can certainly change your perspective and direction. I also want to note that I’m making it sound like it was as easy as moving, so to be transparent, it wasn’t easy. It took a lot of self discipline and discomfort, but it was worth every second of doubt.
- laurent92 5y ago
  If it took only 2 years, it was easy. I’ve travelled around the world and did most of the possible side quests, including the workout phase, the guitar phase, the charity/vegan phase, the millionaire phase, and I’m still transparent to women. And I’ve grown bitter. I did everything I could. I’d say “please, help” but to be honest, I’ve grown too bitter to hear the advice. It’s a game designed to make me lose, I’m neither BALM nor female, so they just want to exclude me.
  - _3u10 5y ago
    It’s not about them it’s about you. Do things for you, not them. If you still insist on making it about them do everything women complain about that’s not illegal, except dick pics, unless you’re hung. I’d recommend pairing the millionaire thing with bringing a couple grams with you to party. Everything else you described sounds like incel stuff.
  - moritonal 5y ago
    You're referring to life as a game, and checking off a list of objectives. I might be wrong, but from just what you said it sounds like you did these "phases" because you wanted people to think you were these things, not because you were them. I've found people (especially woman) are good at seeing through these pretenses.
    - laurent92 5y ago
      What tells you I wanted people to believe I were these things? I did guitar because it was nice to sing, and the idea of singing around a bonfire and maybe making people sing was just a good feeling. I sang the last song of a friend who died from cancer, and that was a song we had written together. He went for his last sleep on it, that’s the best departure I could imagine for him. Unfortunately, I plateaued at some level, like probably everyone does, so it became boring and annoying to not progress. It doesn’t mean I wasn’t guitar. Anyway I don’t understand what women are looking for, that’s why I’m getting downvoted.
esbeeb 5y ago
Great answer. I agree getting out of one's comfort zone can go a long way to bringing new perspective, and adapting, and developing new skills. Especially social ones.
DarkContinent 5y ago
+1 to worrying less about what other people think of you. Ironically, this caring less can actually make people like you more (because you seem more confident).
- chousuke 5y ago
  How do you stop caring? I would give nearly anything for this superpower. Even obviously completely insignificant moments that matter to no-one can stick with me for days, and some stay with me for years, bubbling up and causing anxiety or low mood out of nowhere. No amount of rational analysis or forced positive thinking seems to help.
  - aero142 5y ago
    Perhaps cognitive behavior therapy could help with your anxiety.
  - SamPatt 5y ago
    For me it was a combination of having achieved some amount of success (physical, financial, career) and also some humbling failure. Basically I learned I'm not so bad, and I'm not a great man either. I'm good enough. I don't hurt other people. I like myself, and when you genuinely like yourself then other people's opinions aren't quite as important. Nearly everyone responds positively when you aren't seeking other's approval (but are still kind). I suspect this comes with age for a lot of people. Didn't happen for me until my 30s. Losing weight and getting into shape was a huge catalyst, I highly recommend it.
    - incompatible 5y ago
      You have to expect that quite a few people aren't going to like you, in any case, you just aren't compatible. After all, do you like everybody else?
      - SamPatt 5y ago
        I'm sure some people don't like me. But they keep it to themselves. Even if they didn't, so what? Unless I did something to hurt them, I shouldn't be upset about it.
WheelsAtLarge 5y ago
"how to observe "normal, healthy" people and learn from them." Very true! I would go as far as emulating a person you admire due to their ability to interact with others. Deconstruct their interaction and look for the parts that can help you. One thing you will mostly notice is self confidence. People always feel good with people that project that. Make sure it's confidence not arrogance. It's a fine line.
- Nition 5y ago
  And funnily enough one of the first things you'll notice is that confident people have the same awkward faux pas interactions that would keep you awake at night all the time - maybe even more often, since they aren't so hyper-alert analyzing the conversation. But they just don't care! And because they don't get all shy and awkward when the awkward thing happens, because they don't make it awkward, the other person doesn't feel awkward either, and maybe at most both parties laugh about it for a moment, the conversation continues and life goes on and that night they sleep the peaceful sleep of the innocent. Or they lie awake worrying about some entirely different set of life problems, because we're all just doing our best and showing the best face we can.
  - WheelsAtLarge 5y ago
    So true, you remember your mistakes way more than anyone else's. Think about it. How many of other people's mistakes do you remember? Not many, if any. You just don't have the time and energy to focus on someone else life. It's hard enough to deal with yours. Be kind to yourself, note mistakes but don't obsess over them.
kaba0 5y ago
I would be very interested in any tips regarding improving one’s speech skills. I am way too prone to talking too fast to the point where I have sometimes trouble forming words and any like “I didn’t get that” makes me more anxious increasing my rate of mistakes. But strangely it largely creeped up to me when I was around 20ish years old, while my teenage anxiety largely diminished.
- trevinhofmann 5y ago
  I personally recommend joining a local Toastmasters club. They can help you with speed, tone, volume, etc. It can benefit your conversational speech as well, not only public speaking.
  - D-Coder 5y ago
    Or a local speech course. I took an eight-week course in public speaking in college, and it was probably the most useful course I took there. I can do talks in front of tech groups or hobby groups... not without some sweating, but still more effectively than most people.
- memling 5y ago
  Read and record yourself. Repeat until you learn what sounds good coming out of your mouth. Write at the same time. Think about your words. Savor both. It makes a world of difference. When you write read aloud. Share. Communication of all kinds goes together. If you get this far you may also find that practicing your voice in speech and writing will improve your self confidence too.
- nitrogen 5y ago
  Breathe in completely, breathe out completely, then breathe in just a little bit before speaking. The breathing out is the most important part.
- MrVandemar 5y ago
  There's a free short course on Udemy somewhere from Peter Barker who is a professional voice over artist. That's worth looking up - there's a section that covers correcting and improving a lot of common speech problems, from stuttering, talking too fast, mumbling, and how to improve the resonance of your voice. Might be worth a look.
taneq 5y ago
1) is huge. I really started coming out of my shell when I went traveling - here I was in a foreign country where nobody knew me and I'd never see any of these people ever again. So why not talk to the random person at the train station? Why not walk up and introduce myself to some strangers at the bar? And with that practice I started getting better at it, which made me more confident, which made me more comfortable with it, which made me better at it, and there we have that positive feedback loop.

varrock 5y ago

Ironically, I have done exactly the two tips you mentioned, and I can confidently say that my life has changed drastically. In fact, so much so, that when I catch up with people who knew me even two years ago, they usually make a comment. One thing I was initially afraid of when deciding to move was “running away from my problems” only to realize I’m in the exact same situation as before. Well, that was actually very true. I still felt like the same “awkward” person despite moving across the country. But here’s the difference; I was actually motivated to fix it. Being in a new city opened my eyes to how much I wanted to explore, but also how much I was holding myself back. Ever since moving, I’ve lost my fear of being myself, have a partner, and found a higher paying job. My main point here is that while you can’t run away from your true inner self, a new environment can certainly change your perspective and direction. I also want to note that I’m making it sound like it was as easy as moving, so to be transparent, it wasn’t easy. It took a lot of self discipline and discomfort, but it was worth every second of doubt.

laurent92 5y ago
If it took only 2 years, it was easy. I’ve travelled around the world and did most of the possible side quests, including the workout phase, the guitar phase, the charity/vegan phase, the millionaire phase, and I’m still transparent to women. And I’ve grown bitter. I did everything I could. I’d say “please, help” but to be honest, I’ve grown too bitter to hear the advice. It’s a game designed to make me lose, I’m neither BALM nor female, so they just want to exclude me.
- _3u10 5y ago
  It’s not about them it’s about you. Do things for you, not them. If you still insist on making it about them do everything women complain about that’s not illegal, except dick pics, unless you’re hung. I’d recommend pairing the millionaire thing with bringing a couple grams with you to party. Everything else you described sounds like incel stuff.
- moritonal 5y ago
  You're referring to life as a game, and checking off a list of objectives. I might be wrong, but from just what you said it sounds like you did these "phases" because you wanted people to think you were these things, not because you were them. I've found people (especially woman) are good at seeing through these pretenses.
  - laurent92 5y ago
    What tells you I wanted people to believe I were these things? I did guitar because it was nice to sing, and the idea of singing around a bonfire and maybe making people sing was just a good feeling. I sang the last song of a friend who died from cancer, and that was a song we had written together. He went for his last sleep on it, that’s the best departure I could imagine for him. Unfortunately, I plateaued at some level, like probably everyone does, so it became boring and annoying to not progress. It doesn’t mean I wasn’t guitar. Anyway I don’t understand what women are looking for, that’s why I’m getting downvoted.

esbeeb 5y ago

Great answer. I agree getting out of one's comfort zone can go a long way to bringing new perspective, and adapting, and developing new skills. Especially social ones.

DarkContinent 5y ago

+1 to worrying less about what other people think of you. Ironically, this caring less can actually make people like you more (because you seem more confident).

chousuke 5y ago
How do you stop caring? I would give nearly anything for this superpower. Even obviously completely insignificant moments that matter to no-one can stick with me for days, and some stay with me for years, bubbling up and causing anxiety or low mood out of nowhere. No amount of rational analysis or forced positive thinking seems to help.
- aero142 5y ago
  Perhaps cognitive behavior therapy could help with your anxiety.
- SamPatt 5y ago
  For me it was a combination of having achieved some amount of success (physical, financial, career) and also some humbling failure. Basically I learned I'm not so bad, and I'm not a great man either. I'm good enough. I don't hurt other people. I like myself, and when you genuinely like yourself then other people's opinions aren't quite as important. Nearly everyone responds positively when you aren't seeking other's approval (but are still kind). I suspect this comes with age for a lot of people. Didn't happen for me until my 30s. Losing weight and getting into shape was a huge catalyst, I highly recommend it.
  - incompatible 5y ago
    You have to expect that quite a few people aren't going to like you, in any case, you just aren't compatible. After all, do you like everybody else?
    - SamPatt 5y ago
      I'm sure some people don't like me. But they keep it to themselves. Even if they didn't, so what? Unless I did something to hurt them, I shouldn't be upset about it.

WheelsAtLarge 5y ago

"how to observe "normal, healthy" people and learn from them." Very true! I would go as far as emulating a person you admire due to their ability to interact with others. Deconstruct their interaction and look for the parts that can help you. One thing you will mostly notice is self confidence. People always feel good with people that project that. Make sure it's confidence not arrogance. It's a fine line.

Nition 5y ago
And funnily enough one of the first things you'll notice is that confident people have the same awkward faux pas interactions that would keep you awake at night all the time - maybe even more often, since they aren't so hyper-alert analyzing the conversation. But they just don't care! And because they don't get all shy and awkward when the awkward thing happens, because they don't make it awkward, the other person doesn't feel awkward either, and maybe at most both parties laugh about it for a moment, the conversation continues and life goes on and that night they sleep the peaceful sleep of the innocent. Or they lie awake worrying about some entirely different set of life problems, because we're all just doing our best and showing the best face we can.
- WheelsAtLarge 5y ago
  So true, you remember your mistakes way more than anyone else's. Think about it. How many of other people's mistakes do you remember? Not many, if any. You just don't have the time and energy to focus on someone else life. It's hard enough to deal with yours. Be kind to yourself, note mistakes but don't obsess over them.

kaba0 5y ago

I would be very interested in any tips regarding improving one’s speech skills. I am way too prone to talking too fast to the point where I have sometimes trouble forming words and any like “I didn’t get that” makes me more anxious increasing my rate of mistakes. But strangely it largely creeped up to me when I was around 20ish years old, while my teenage anxiety largely diminished.

trevinhofmann 5y ago
I personally recommend joining a local Toastmasters club. They can help you with speed, tone, volume, etc. It can benefit your conversational speech as well, not only public speaking.
- D-Coder 5y ago
  Or a local speech course. I took an eight-week course in public speaking in college, and it was probably the most useful course I took there. I can do talks in front of tech groups or hobby groups... not without some sweating, but still more effectively than most people.
memling 5y ago
Read and record yourself. Repeat until you learn what sounds good coming out of your mouth. Write at the same time. Think about your words. Savor both. It makes a world of difference. When you write read aloud. Share. Communication of all kinds goes together. If you get this far you may also find that practicing your voice in speech and writing will improve your self confidence too.
nitrogen 5y ago
Breathe in completely, breathe out completely, then breathe in just a little bit before speaking. The breathing out is the most important part.
MrVandemar 5y ago
There's a free short course on Udemy somewhere from Peter Barker who is a professional voice over artist. That's worth looking up - there's a section that covers correcting and improving a lot of common speech problems, from stuttering, talking too fast, mumbling, and how to improve the resonance of your voice. Might be worth a look.

taneq 5y ago

1) is huge. I really started coming out of my shell when I went traveling - here I was in a foreign country where nobody knew me and I'd never see any of these people ever again. So why not talk to the random person at the train station? Why not walk up and introduce myself to some strangers at the bar? And with that practice I started getting better at it, which made me more confident, which made me more comfortable with it, which made me better at it, and there we have that positive feedback loop.