6 ms·

Using personal email for investigation of competitors is illegal. I am not sure in what situations but that’s what we were trained when I was working in US comp

Using personal email for investigation of competitors is illegal. I am not sure in what situations but that’s what we were trained when I was working in US company.

icedchai 5y ago
It may be in violation of corporate policies, or perhaps the other company's ToS, but I very much doubt it is illegal in the criminal sense. If you have a link to prove otherwise, I'd love to see it. At a previous startup, both the founders and various employees would often sign up for competitors using our personal, "spare" emails. We were doing competitive research.
- kingcharles 5y ago
  Certainly in the USA violating a website's ToS is a criminal offense. e.g. using a fake name to sign up with a site is at least a misdemeanor and sometimes a felony carrying several years in prison.
  - icedchai 5y ago
    Not sure where you heard that, but ToS violations are absolutely not a criminal offense. See https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/07/court-violating-terms-service-not-crime-bypassing https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/07/court-violating-terms-... and https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/01/ninth-circuit-doubles-down-violating-websites-terms-service-not-crime https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/01/ninth-circuit-doubles-... At best, they are a civil violation. This means the company is going to have to initiate a lawsuit, which is very expensive. Assuming that happens, which is extremely unlikely for a fake name, you certainly will not be going to prison.
    - kingcharles 5y ago
      Sadly, you are wrong. This same statute exists in many states. (720 ILCS 5/17-51) (was 720 ILCS 5/16D-3) Sec. 17-51. Computer tampering. (a) A person commits computer tampering when he or she knowingly and without the authorization of a computer's owner or in excess of the authority granted to him or her: (1) Accesses or causes to be accessed a computer or any part thereof, a computer network, or a program or data; (2) Accesses or causes to be accessed a computer or any part thereof, a computer network, or a program or data, and obtains data or services; [...] (a-10) For purposes of subsection (a), accessing a computer network is deemed to be with the authorization of a computer's owner if: (1) the owner authorizes patrons, customers, or guests to access the computer network and the person accessing the computer network is an authorized patron, customer, or guest and complies with all terms or conditions for use of the computer network that are imposed by the owner; [...] (b) Sentence. (1) A person who commits computer tampering as set forth in subdivision (a)(1) or (a)(5) or subsection (a-5) of this Section is guilty of a Class B misdemeanor. (2) A person who commits computer tampering as set forth in subdivision (a)(2) of this Section is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor and a Class 4 felony for the second or subsequent offense. [Class A misdemeanor is one year in a county jail. Class 4 felony is 3 years in prison.]
      - icedchai 5y ago
        Sorry, I’ll trust the EFF. TOS violations aren’t “tampering.” The fake account was created through authorized means, etc.
      - codingdave 5y ago
        Those "..." that you put in to replace some of the content means we cannot really follow this post. Statutes are laid out with heaps of criteria, and often complex and/or logic. Cherry picking a few sentences to share here shows that you might have some truth to your claims... but we'd need to read the full statutes and know which jurisdictions you are talking about to really get into it. I do concur that the fact that ToS is mentioned here makes it worth doing the research and not just saying automatically that it is a civil case, but we'd need much more info do give anything other than the #1 answer from law school for all questions: "It depends." At the same time, I doubt there are many DAs who would prosecute a criminal case over the email a competitor used to sign up for a service.
        kingcharles 5y ago
        The statute number is in my post. It would take literally two seconds to Google the statute number. https://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/fulltext.asp?DocName=072000050K17-51 https://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/fulltext.asp?DocName=0...
- daliusd 5y ago
  I am pretty sure that it is safe in 99% cases, but it is up to you to risk that 1% ;-)
patmcc 5y ago
What law would this possibly break? You think a Netflix employee can't sign up for Disney Plus on their personal account?
- daliusd 5y ago
  For personal use that's fine. For investigation of competitor that might be illegal.
  - icedchai 5y ago
    It might, it also might not be. Either way 1) odds of it being discovered are very low 2) odds of any law enforcement action being taken, even if it is illegal, is also low. 3) even if any action is taken, what do you think the punishment is going to be? a slap on the wrist or a talking to? a waste of tax payers money, either way.

Using personal email for investigation of competitors is illegal. I am not sure in what situations but that’s what we were trained when I was working in US company.

icedchai 5y ago

It may be in violation of corporate policies, or perhaps the other company's ToS, but I very much doubt it is illegal in the criminal sense. If you have a link to prove otherwise, I'd love to see it. At a previous startup, both the founders and various employees would often sign up for competitors using our personal, "spare" emails. We were doing competitive research.

kingcharles 5y ago
Certainly in the USA violating a website's ToS is a criminal offense. e.g. using a fake name to sign up with a site is at least a misdemeanor and sometimes a felony carrying several years in prison.
- icedchai 5y ago
  Not sure where you heard that, but ToS violations are absolutely not a criminal offense. See https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/07/court-violating-terms-service-not-crime-bypassing https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/07/court-violating-terms-... and https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/01/ninth-circuit-doubles-down-violating-websites-terms-service-not-crime https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/01/ninth-circuit-doubles-... At best, they are a civil violation. This means the company is going to have to initiate a lawsuit, which is very expensive. Assuming that happens, which is extremely unlikely for a fake name, you certainly will not be going to prison.
  - kingcharles 5y ago
    Sadly, you are wrong. This same statute exists in many states. (720 ILCS 5/17-51) (was 720 ILCS 5/16D-3) Sec. 17-51. Computer tampering. (a) A person commits computer tampering when he or she knowingly and without the authorization of a computer's owner or in excess of the authority granted to him or her: (1) Accesses or causes to be accessed a computer or any part thereof, a computer network, or a program or data; (2) Accesses or causes to be accessed a computer or any part thereof, a computer network, or a program or data, and obtains data or services; [...] (a-10) For purposes of subsection (a), accessing a computer network is deemed to be with the authorization of a computer's owner if: (1) the owner authorizes patrons, customers, or guests to access the computer network and the person accessing the computer network is an authorized patron, customer, or guest and complies with all terms or conditions for use of the computer network that are imposed by the owner; [...] (b) Sentence. (1) A person who commits computer tampering as set forth in subdivision (a)(1) or (a)(5) or subsection (a-5) of this Section is guilty of a Class B misdemeanor. (2) A person who commits computer tampering as set forth in subdivision (a)(2) of this Section is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor and a Class 4 felony for the second or subsequent offense. [Class A misdemeanor is one year in a county jail. Class 4 felony is 3 years in prison.]
    - icedchai 5y ago
      Sorry, I’ll trust the EFF. TOS violations aren’t “tampering.” The fake account was created through authorized means, etc.
    - codingdave 5y ago
      Those "..." that you put in to replace some of the content means we cannot really follow this post. Statutes are laid out with heaps of criteria, and often complex and/or logic. Cherry picking a few sentences to share here shows that you might have some truth to your claims... but we'd need to read the full statutes and know which jurisdictions you are talking about to really get into it. I do concur that the fact that ToS is mentioned here makes it worth doing the research and not just saying automatically that it is a civil case, but we'd need much more info do give anything other than the #1 answer from law school for all questions: "It depends." At the same time, I doubt there are many DAs who would prosecute a criminal case over the email a competitor used to sign up for a service.
      - kingcharles 5y ago
        The statute number is in my post. It would take literally two seconds to Google the statute number. https://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/fulltext.asp?DocName=072000050K17-51 https://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/fulltext.asp?DocName=0...
daliusd 5y ago
I am pretty sure that it is safe in 99% cases, but it is up to you to risk that 1% ;-)

patmcc 5y ago

What law would this possibly break? You think a Netflix employee can't sign up for Disney Plus on their personal account?

daliusd 5y ago
For personal use that's fine. For investigation of competitor that might be illegal.
- icedchai 5y ago
  It might, it also might not be. Either way 1) odds of it being discovered are very low 2) odds of any law enforcement action being taken, even if it is illegal, is also low. 3) even if any action is taken, what do you think the punishment is going to be? a slap on the wrist or a talking to? a waste of tax payers money, either way.