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The NSA Teams Up with the Chinese Government to Limit Internet Anonymity

34 points by tomh 18y ago

rkowalick 18y ago
"...imagine a boot stamping on a human face--forever."
- deleted 18y ago
  [deleted]
raganwald 18y ago
Is this why the US under Reagan brought the USSR to its knees? So that the West could team up with China on tracing dissent? I'm saddened, I really am.
- qwph 18y ago
  Human history has always been a struggle between those who want to limit the freedom of the individual and those who want to preserve it. I don't think either side has ever got the upper hand, and I doubt either side ever will.
  - raganwald 18y ago
    There are two questions: Where is the pendulum now? And which way is it swinging? We may not be living in a Stalinist dictatorship, but I don't like the way things are going on both sides of the 49th parallel.
biohacker42 18y ago
Sadly the NSA and China are NOT strange bed fellows, and you don't need a lot imagination to see what's gone wrong with world. For the clueless or tragically optimistic: Fascism came out on top. Communism failed spectacularly, socialism and capitalism slowly give way to fascism.
- noonespecial 18y ago
  It seems like fascism is the default emergent state of people living together in large numbers. Democracy and liberty can be added to the system via careful thought and dedicated action on that insight. We seem to be in short supply of both.
- andreyf 18y ago
  Fascism came out on top. Communism failed spectacularly, socialism and capitalism slowly give way to fascism. Don't be quite so certain... the last chapter has yet to be written. Sometimes things change quickly and dramatically.
  - biohacker42 18y ago
    Oh I know, I lived through the collapse of communism in Eastern Europe. And I lived through the painful transition to market democracy... which is still on going, going, going, towards fascism.
    - jrsims 18y ago
      What comes after fascism?
      - biohacker42 18y ago
        Crisis driven collapse & revolutionary reform which is a lot like flipping a coin and ending up with either a small democratic government or even more fascism. If you end up with the first, you're still not safe as it tends to grow over time. Think of fascism as the highest entropy state of society.
        deleted 18y ago
        [deleted]
bootload 18y ago
"... TraceBack is most useful in monitoring the activities of large masses of people. But of course, that's why the Chinese and the NSA are so interested in this proposal in the first place. ..." Step 4 on the way to a Fascist state. Set up a comprehensive internal surveillance system ~ http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/apr/24/usa.comment http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/apr/24/usa.comment

34 points by tomh 18y ago

rkowalick 18y ago

"...imagine a boot stamping on a human face--forever."

deleted 18y ago
[deleted]

raganwald 18y ago

Is this why the US under Reagan brought the USSR to its knees? So that the West could team up with China on tracing dissent? I'm saddened, I really am.

qwph 18y ago
Human history has always been a struggle between those who want to limit the freedom of the individual and those who want to preserve it. I don't think either side has ever got the upper hand, and I doubt either side ever will.
- raganwald 18y ago
  There are two questions: Where is the pendulum now? And which way is it swinging? We may not be living in a Stalinist dictatorship, but I don't like the way things are going on both sides of the 49th parallel.

biohacker42 18y ago

Sadly the NSA and China are NOT strange bed fellows, and you don't need a lot imagination to see what's gone wrong with world. For the clueless or tragically optimistic: Fascism came out on top. Communism failed spectacularly, socialism and capitalism slowly give way to fascism.

noonespecial 18y ago
It seems like fascism is the default emergent state of people living together in large numbers. Democracy and liberty can be added to the system via careful thought and dedicated action on that insight. We seem to be in short supply of both.
andreyf 18y ago
Fascism came out on top. Communism failed spectacularly, socialism and capitalism slowly give way to fascism. Don't be quite so certain... the last chapter has yet to be written. Sometimes things change quickly and dramatically.
- biohacker42 18y ago
  Oh I know, I lived through the collapse of communism in Eastern Europe. And I lived through the painful transition to market democracy... which is still on going, going, going, towards fascism.
  - jrsims 18y ago
    What comes after fascism?
    - biohacker42 18y ago
      Crisis driven collapse & revolutionary reform which is a lot like flipping a coin and ending up with either a small democratic government or even more fascism. If you end up with the first, you're still not safe as it tends to grow over time. Think of fascism as the highest entropy state of society.
      - deleted 18y ago
        [deleted]

bootload 18y ago

"... TraceBack is most useful in monitoring the activities of large masses of people. But of course, that's why the Chinese and the NSA are so interested in this proposal in the first place. ..." Step 4 on the way to a Fascist state. Set up a comprehensive internal surveillance system ~ http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/apr/24/usa.comment http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/apr/24/usa.comment