6 ms·
Considering that only 15 people have been killed since 1910 during the Pamplona bull run, and that the bulls are routinely killed in the evening, I'd say those
by sweetheart 5y ago
Considering that only 15 people have been killed since 1910 during the Pamplona bull run, and that the bulls are routinely killed in the evening, I'd say those that are truly in danger are the bulls.
What a ridiculous, violent, stupid, and unnecessary thing to do: get chased by terrified and antagonized bulls for fun, only to kill them for trying to protect themselves and escape.
- naoqj 5y agoThis particular festivity brings tourists and with them a lot of money to the city, so the locals probably see it as necessary.
- jl6 5y agoIt’s not the only way a city can make money, so I wouldn’t exactly describe it as necessary. One day they’ll switch to a Boston Dynamics Safety Bull and put up a museum of shame memorializing the historical approach, and the tourists will come to see that.
- naoqj 5y agoYes, I'm sure as many tourists will come to see that.
- xvector 5y agoI guess we should bring back gladiator tournaments too, then?
- pvaldes 5y agoYou may be surprised to know that yes, we have gladiator fights in Spain. In September, and they are a lot of fun. Not. I'm not joking. It's something you have to see to believe it :-)
- WelcomeShorty 5y agoThe only real gladiator stuff going on today is Calcio Storico. Proof me wrong.
- paulryanrogers 5y agoIs MMA, boxing, or American football so much different?
- xvector 5y agoYes, as participants have a choice, e.g. they consent to the suffering.
- MathCodeLove 5y agoSo you would consent to gladiator fighting between two consenting humans then?
- naoqj 5y agoHe has to consent to what others do?
- awb 5y agoIt’s an interesting dilemma because they are consenting, but to what extent are they being influenced by the money compared to their career opportunities outside of the sport? Many athletes in dangerous sports come from lower class backgrounds where it might be seen as the only ticket out of poverty. I don’t think it’s enough to convert a pacifist into an MMA fighter, but its certainly not the same equation for kids growing up at different income levels.
- sweetheart 5y agoSurely you can see the difference between a game of American football and the goring of an innocent terrified animal via swords.
- paulryanrogers 5y agoGood point. I was thinking more of the outcomes, such as unnecessary physical harm in exchange for entertainment.
- lotsofpulp 5y agoThe whole concept of bullfighting and using other animals’ pain for entertainment is stupid. If someone in the same society came up with it today, they would be called a psychopath.
- david38 5y agoOperative word being “today”. This is why education teaches you that values and morals change and that judging the past by today’s lens is a poor way to judge. It also teaches you that what people call psychopathic is mostly just a difference in values.
- Fauntleroy 5y agoYeah, we get that. In context the real question is "why are we still actively participating in traditions that modern society would consider psychopathic?"
- awb 5y agoTradition and money.
- n3storm 5y agoIMHO order matters: Money first and then tradition. This gets a lot of money to Pamplona and Navarra in general. On the other hand bullfighting is more or less a similar tradition but is not giving money (Local and Regional govern and Private investors is artificially sustaining bullfighting) so is about to disappear.
- pessimizer 5y agoBecause "modern society" writ large isn't a coherent enough concept to be useful. There may be a dominant element of Spanish society that would prevent bullfighting from being invented today, but that element doesn't either have the strength of belief or actual dominance to stop it. Plenty of people find it enjoyable/heroic/interesting, so to not include those people within modern society is strange. Are they truly modern?
- xvector 5y agoAs far as hurting animals for entertainment goes, we can look at our meals for inspiration. The average person will cause magnitudes more suffering than the bull runs thanks to their dietary choices. Factory farms are objectively the largest producers of suffering this planet has ever seen [1, 2], and most people consume the meat they produce for pleasure as opposed to necessity. [1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQRAfJyEsko https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQRAfJyEsko [2]: https://www.dominionmovement.com/facts https://www.dominionmovement.com/facts
- netizen-936824 5y agoI think what you say is a reasonable statement. At least in the US, food and eating is considered by some to be a pasttime/hobby rather than something essential for life. Needless death and suffering for the enjoyment of food.
- sweetheart 5y agoAgreed. Veganism is the moral baseline.
- oh_sigh 5y agoThe irony being that a ton of marketed vegan food is dripping with palm oil, and if the companies produced it using oppressive, slave-like animal labor instead of oppressive, slave-like human labor, vegans would choose not to eat it.
- HWR_14 5y agoThe bulls aren't killed for trying to protect themselves and escape. They are killed at the end regardless of their actions, and I believed butchered and eaten. You may object to either step of the process, but let's not pretend that the bulls are being punished.