5 ms·

During my doctoral years, two students in my department took their own lives (separate events, to be clear). The events themselves were horribly tragic, but th

During my doctoral years, two students in my department took their own lives (separate events, to be clear). The events themselves were horribly tragic, but the lack of even a clear acknowledgement of the causes of death left a surreal sense of denial. Mental health is an enormously under-discussed issue in an increasingly digital society that hides suffering in so many of us. Work becomes an increasingly integral element of our connection to others while certain employment becomes increasingly transactional. We all can do better. So sorry to read about another human being lost too soon.

maleldil 5y ago
Do you think it wasn't acknowledged specifically because it was suicide, or was it an overall culture of not addressing the cause of death in general? Because the second one sounds fine to me.
- BoorishBears 5y ago
  How is it fine? Causes of death are not fungible, dying in a freak accident and dying from suicide in a high pressure setting should not be treated the same. Especially since we know that suicide can act like a contagion: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK207262/#_sec_0078_ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK207262/#_sec_0078_ and the demands of the program they were in were almost certainly a factor
  - maleldil 5y ago
    If it's specifically with suicide, then the company has a stigma with mental health, which is not okay. However, if it's always "teammate died" with no extra information, I can respect it. Your teammates are not entitled to know your cause of death. That's a personal thing, but you aren't there any more to choose if it's okay to share.
    - BoorishBears 5y ago
      If there's whispers the cat is out of the bag... the most respectful move is to simply address it and extend counseling Your cause of death isn't a personal thing either by the way, it's a matter of public record in most states (and of course word tends to get out with something as emotional as a death)
      - watwut 5y ago
        Colleagues are entitled to details of mental health issues nor other issues someone who just killed himself had. If there is public record, they are entitled to that and nothing more. The death person and his/her family have their own right to privacy and it trumps curiosity of collegues.
        BoorishBears 5y ago
        This isn't about the curiosity of collegues?? Again, this isn't some random suicide, these are people in a known high pressure environment already aware this person committed suicide. The organization can pretend nothing happened (even though everyone already knew), or they can take charge and try and help these people cope with that devastating news and help anyone who might already be in a bad place... Once you're dead you're dead, that's why causes of death aren't personal... there's no person left. The organization doesn't even have to frame it in of terms this person's death, just a simple call out that "if anyone is struggling with this loss or needs help come to us". Anything is better than pretending it didn't happen.
        watwut 5y ago
        Some of those are close people ... others are not. Some might be are bullies who contributed too. That would not be rare either. > Once you're dead you're dead, that's why causes of death aren't personal... there's no person left. The family and actually close friends are left. And people who are about to die deserve to know their privacy will remain private too.
  - philwelch 5y ago
    It’s exactly because suicide is socially contagious that it makes sense to stigmatize it and not openly discuss it.
    - BoorishBears 5y ago
      That makes zero sense at all. People learned this person committed suicide and the organization decided not to address it. That is strictly worse than addressing it no matter how you slice it.
      - philwelch 5y ago
        The organization is liable for their own communications. They aren’t liable for the rumor mill. It doesn’t have to make sense objectively; the organization’s actions only have to make sense from their perspective and incentives. OTOH, I’ve worked at office buildings that provided a clear view of a jumper, and there were formal communications that counseling was available to anyone who witnessed the jumper and felt they needed it. Which sort of underscored the fact that jumpers in the middle of busy downtown areas aren’t broadly reported to anyone who wasn’t likely to have directly seen them in the first place.
DiggyJohnson 5y ago
Mental health isn’t underdiscussed, it’s just not discussed seriously enough.
- haswell 5y ago
  I would argue that it’s both. It’s not seriously discussed because it’s under-discussed. I think most people understand the seriousness of cancer, or a heart attack, or other life threatening ailments. They accept that those things are often outside of one’s control, and so there is never any hesitation to take it seriously. When someone in a work setting is diagnosed with something serious, everyone pays attention. Mental health issues are hard for some people to understand if they haven’t experienced their own challenges. And because it’s not discussed frequently/seriously enough, it’s easy to downplay it or believe that the person struggling can change just by thinking hard enough. And the people suffering from it don’t feel the same freedom to share those struggles because they’ve also been conditioned by the same collective mindset about mental health and worry what opening up about it will mean for them. Someone with severe depression who struggles with suicidal ideation has to wonder if people will think less of them, or if they’ll be understand at all. Even though awareness has grown, those old stigmas and default behaviors remain just under the surface. Someone with a terminal illness will receive an outpouring of support and encouragement. I’m happy that awareness continues to grow, but there’s a long way to go.
  - bckr 5y ago
    > Even though awareness has grown, those old stigmas and default behaviors remain just under the surface. This is exactly right. Even in the last few years I feel more understanding about mental health struggles, and I strive to be supportive as well, but even I judge people who take time off for mental health reasons, and I hesitate to tell people about my own struggles.
    - quantified 5y ago
      Taboo/misunderstanding/hangups beget that hesitation, round it goes, sadly.

maleldil 5y ago

Do you think it wasn't acknowledged specifically because it was suicide, or was it an overall culture of not addressing the cause of death in general? Because the second one sounds fine to me.

BoorishBears 5y ago
How is it fine? Causes of death are not fungible, dying in a freak accident and dying from suicide in a high pressure setting should not be treated the same. Especially since we know that suicide can act like a contagion: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK207262/#_sec_0078_ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK207262/#_sec_0078_ and the demands of the program they were in were almost certainly a factor
- maleldil 5y ago
  If it's specifically with suicide, then the company has a stigma with mental health, which is not okay. However, if it's always "teammate died" with no extra information, I can respect it. Your teammates are not entitled to know your cause of death. That's a personal thing, but you aren't there any more to choose if it's okay to share.
  - BoorishBears 5y ago
    If there's whispers the cat is out of the bag... the most respectful move is to simply address it and extend counseling Your cause of death isn't a personal thing either by the way, it's a matter of public record in most states (and of course word tends to get out with something as emotional as a death)
    - watwut 5y ago
      Colleagues are entitled to details of mental health issues nor other issues someone who just killed himself had. If there is public record, they are entitled to that and nothing more. The death person and his/her family have their own right to privacy and it trumps curiosity of collegues.
      - BoorishBears 5y ago
        This isn't about the curiosity of collegues?? Again, this isn't some random suicide, these are people in a known high pressure environment already aware this person committed suicide. The organization can pretend nothing happened (even though everyone already knew), or they can take charge and try and help these people cope with that devastating news and help anyone who might already be in a bad place... Once you're dead you're dead, that's why causes of death aren't personal... there's no person left. The organization doesn't even have to frame it in of terms this person's death, just a simple call out that "if anyone is struggling with this loss or needs help come to us". Anything is better than pretending it didn't happen.
        watwut 5y ago
        Some of those are close people ... others are not. Some might be are bullies who contributed too. That would not be rare either. > Once you're dead you're dead, that's why causes of death aren't personal... there's no person left. The family and actually close friends are left. And people who are about to die deserve to know their privacy will remain private too.
- philwelch 5y ago
  It’s exactly because suicide is socially contagious that it makes sense to stigmatize it and not openly discuss it.
  - BoorishBears 5y ago
    That makes zero sense at all. People learned this person committed suicide and the organization decided not to address it. That is strictly worse than addressing it no matter how you slice it.
    - philwelch 5y ago
      The organization is liable for their own communications. They aren’t liable for the rumor mill. It doesn’t have to make sense objectively; the organization’s actions only have to make sense from their perspective and incentives. OTOH, I’ve worked at office buildings that provided a clear view of a jumper, and there were formal communications that counseling was available to anyone who witnessed the jumper and felt they needed it. Which sort of underscored the fact that jumpers in the middle of busy downtown areas aren’t broadly reported to anyone who wasn’t likely to have directly seen them in the first place.

DiggyJohnson 5y ago

Mental health isn’t underdiscussed, it’s just not discussed seriously enough.

haswell 5y ago
I would argue that it’s both. It’s not seriously discussed because it’s under-discussed. I think most people understand the seriousness of cancer, or a heart attack, or other life threatening ailments. They accept that those things are often outside of one’s control, and so there is never any hesitation to take it seriously. When someone in a work setting is diagnosed with something serious, everyone pays attention. Mental health issues are hard for some people to understand if they haven’t experienced their own challenges. And because it’s not discussed frequently/seriously enough, it’s easy to downplay it or believe that the person struggling can change just by thinking hard enough. And the people suffering from it don’t feel the same freedom to share those struggles because they’ve also been conditioned by the same collective mindset about mental health and worry what opening up about it will mean for them. Someone with severe depression who struggles with suicidal ideation has to wonder if people will think less of them, or if they’ll be understand at all. Even though awareness has grown, those old stigmas and default behaviors remain just under the surface. Someone with a terminal illness will receive an outpouring of support and encouragement. I’m happy that awareness continues to grow, but there’s a long way to go.
- bckr 5y ago
  > Even though awareness has grown, those old stigmas and default behaviors remain just under the surface. This is exactly right. Even in the last few years I feel more understanding about mental health struggles, and I strive to be supportive as well, but even I judge people who take time off for mental health reasons, and I hesitate to tell people about my own struggles.
  - quantified 5y ago
    Taboo/misunderstanding/hangups beget that hesitation, round it goes, sadly.