4 ms·

7 years as a contractor is abuse. It is abuse of the crappy enforcement of labor laws and abuse of the contractor. That you can have an integrated member of t

7 years as a contractor is abuse. It is abuse of the crappy enforcement of labor laws and abuse of the contractor. That you can have an integrated member of the team clearly be a second-class citizen, that’s just hard to fathom.

exitb 5y ago
Isn’t it difficult/impossible to employ a remote worker from a different country? I assume the company was American, while the contractor worked from Scotland.
- keskival 5y ago
  You can use abundant Employer of Record (EOR) platforms to payroll people located in other countries.
- jlokier 5y ago
  The company is free to treat contractors as well as an employee in many respects, if it chooses, even if pays them as a contractor internationally and has the legal constraints associated with that. Things like: Putting them on the same mailing list as regular employees, inviting them to the same company-wide meetings, including them in international company get-togethers and christmas parties, paid vacation time and sick leave, listing them in the company directory and org chart, paying a day rate so they aren't counting specific hours, a training allowance, giving them the same credit for work as employees, equity including vesting, any of the HR functions that were mentioned in this story (such as bereavement support), etc. The idea that a contractor can't have HR services or that nobody in the company knows about them just "because they are a contractor", or that they have to be paid by the hour with no paid time off, is really just down to company policy. Some companies have better policies.
burntoutfire 5y ago
Depends on the particulars. In some countries in Europe, contractors pay much less taxes than FTEs. Hence, a lot of people prefer contracting. The additional benefit of being outside of grasp of HR and their processes (I'm mostly a contractor and never once in my life had to formaly define "yearly goals" or write up evaluation of my peers) is also nice for a lot of people.
noirbot 5y ago
It's interesting that you think that they're "clearly" "second-class". I've never had a feeling that the contractors on the teams I worked on were treated any differently. Obviously I didn't know their pay/benefits, but that's even true of folks in different offices/countries that are FTEs. If anything our contractors seemed to have looser schedules and would often take planned extended vacations for a month or so since they didn't have any real limit on vacation time, just however long they didn't want to be working. If anything, inside of Ops stuff, contractors are usually amazing to have around since they often have worked at a lot of different companies and have seen different patterns and practices in person to compare.
- treis 5y ago
  > Obviously I didn't know their pay/benefits, but that's even true of folks in different offices/countries that are FTEs. Usually contractors make more than FTEs for various reasons. It's only in the context of H1B body shops that contractors really get abused. Otherwise, the trade is higher pay for less stability.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
Macha 5y ago
Worked in the vicinity of a guy in one of our US offices who flip flopped between employee and contractor a few times on his own initiative. He eventually settled on a FTE role when he became a manager and to my understanding that was a company decision that no we can't have a contractor manager.
1270018080 5y ago
In developed countries (so not the US) that have public healthcare, I've heard contracting roles are much more common, typically preferred by workers, and pay better.
wonderwonder 5y ago
I don't know, I was offered W2 at my job and declined it. As a contractor I get to invest far more of my salary towards tax deductible retirement accounts and I get paid for OT. I don't get paid time off which is unfortunate. But I have had projects where I consistently worked 80 - 90 hour weeks. I am lucky enough to get my benefits via my wife's job though. I do agree with you though regarding someone that wants to come on board as a w2 employee, stringing them along for so long is pretty bad.
jonp888 5y ago
Some people choose to stay as contractors. My last team had one. Compared to the internal employees he earned more money, paid less tax, could work for multiple employers, could work from home 5 days a week instead of 1(pre-pandemic), and had more say over what projects he worked on. No way would he have agreed to join as an employee.
nickkell 5y ago
I would have assumed they fall foul of the IR35 rules. I’m assuming these rules are uk-wide, but I’m not sure

exitb 5y ago

Isn’t it difficult/impossible to employ a remote worker from a different country? I assume the company was American, while the contractor worked from Scotland.

keskival 5y ago
You can use abundant Employer of Record (EOR) platforms to payroll people located in other countries.
jlokier 5y ago
The company is free to treat contractors as well as an employee in many respects, if it chooses, even if pays them as a contractor internationally and has the legal constraints associated with that. Things like: Putting them on the same mailing list as regular employees, inviting them to the same company-wide meetings, including them in international company get-togethers and christmas parties, paid vacation time and sick leave, listing them in the company directory and org chart, paying a day rate so they aren't counting specific hours, a training allowance, giving them the same credit for work as employees, equity including vesting, any of the HR functions that were mentioned in this story (such as bereavement support), etc. The idea that a contractor can't have HR services or that nobody in the company knows about them just "because they are a contractor", or that they have to be paid by the hour with no paid time off, is really just down to company policy. Some companies have better policies.

burntoutfire 5y ago

Depends on the particulars. In some countries in Europe, contractors pay much less taxes than FTEs. Hence, a lot of people prefer contracting. The additional benefit of being outside of grasp of HR and their processes (I'm mostly a contractor and never once in my life had to formaly define "yearly goals" or write up evaluation of my peers) is also nice for a lot of people.

noirbot 5y ago

It's interesting that you think that they're "clearly" "second-class". I've never had a feeling that the contractors on the teams I worked on were treated any differently. Obviously I didn't know their pay/benefits, but that's even true of folks in different offices/countries that are FTEs. If anything our contractors seemed to have looser schedules and would often take planned extended vacations for a month or so since they didn't have any real limit on vacation time, just however long they didn't want to be working. If anything, inside of Ops stuff, contractors are usually amazing to have around since they often have worked at a lot of different companies and have seen different patterns and practices in person to compare.

treis 5y ago
> Obviously I didn't know their pay/benefits, but that's even true of folks in different offices/countries that are FTEs. Usually contractors make more than FTEs for various reasons. It's only in the context of H1B body shops that contractors really get abused. Otherwise, the trade is higher pay for less stability.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

Macha 5y ago

Worked in the vicinity of a guy in one of our US offices who flip flopped between employee and contractor a few times on his own initiative. He eventually settled on a FTE role when he became a manager and to my understanding that was a company decision that no we can't have a contractor manager.

1270018080 5y ago

In developed countries (so not the US) that have public healthcare, I've heard contracting roles are much more common, typically preferred by workers, and pay better.

wonderwonder 5y ago

I don't know, I was offered W2 at my job and declined it. As a contractor I get to invest far more of my salary towards tax deductible retirement accounts and I get paid for OT. I don't get paid time off which is unfortunate. But I have had projects where I consistently worked 80 - 90 hour weeks. I am lucky enough to get my benefits via my wife's job though. I do agree with you though regarding someone that wants to come on board as a w2 employee, stringing them along for so long is pretty bad.

jonp888 5y ago

Some people choose to stay as contractors. My last team had one. Compared to the internal employees he earned more money, paid less tax, could work for multiple employers, could work from home 5 days a week instead of 1(pre-pandemic), and had more say over what projects he worked on. No way would he have agreed to join as an employee.

nickkell 5y ago

I would have assumed they fall foul of the IR35 rules. I’m assuming these rules are uk-wide, but I’m not sure