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If I had the option to kill myself off once I hit the point that I'm no longer able to look after myself then I'd be pretty happy with that. And frankly with wh

If I had the option to kill myself off once I hit the point that I'm no longer able to look after myself then I'd be pretty happy with that. And frankly with what I've seen of last the years of my elderly relatives lives even with care, I rather hope that I do have that option. Dementia looks no fun at all.

everforward 5y ago
This is probably more than most people are willing to accept, but if modern medicine keeps going the way it is, I think we're going to have to have some frank conversations about this. We're pretty good at preventing people from dying young, and we're pretty good at keeping the elderly barely alive. We're pretty bad at extending how long someone can take care of themselves. I don't think we can sustain a society where people work for 40 years and then are retired for another 40. Quality of life will need to drop substantially, or we'll need massive birth rates. You can start to see it with that new Alzheimer's drug, Aduhelm. Was originally $56,000 a year, and is now $28,000. The average prognosis for Alzheimer's is 8 years, so we would be talking about an increase of $224,000 in cost of care for an Alzheimer's patient. That's between 4 and 5 years of labor at the average wage in the US. Add in nursing home care, and it won't be shocking if a lot of people's end of life care exceeds their total lifetime earnings. I don't have a great solution for that. If insurers reduce coverage for end of life care, the effects are going to be mediated by personal wealth. The wealthy will be allowed to retire since they can pay for their own treatment, and the poor will only be allowed to die. You can tax the rich harder, but it's only going to delay the effects for a while.
- nicoburns 5y ago
  > This is probably more than most people are willing to accept You say that, but this a majority opinion amongst people I know both in my own age group (late twenties) and my parents age group (late fifties). My circles probably skew liberal, but even so I think that most people now have first-hand experience of elderly loved ones with dementia and the effects of that on both the person themselves and those who have to care for them. I can't see many people wanting that either for themselves of their descendants. > I don't think we can sustain a society where people work for 40 years and then are retired for another 40. Quality of life will need to drop substantially, or we'll need massive birth rates. And massive birth rates aren't sustainable either. That only pushes the problem back a few decades. This is why I'd ultimately prefer to my life to be cut short. The only alternative on a societal level is to work much harder while I am alive. I'd rather enjoy my time here and then go and let others have their turn.
stjohnswarts 5y ago
Just speaking hypothetically why wouldn't you have that option (I mean unless you were quadraplegic or just mentally completely out of it)? I have my own plan for that but hopefully that is decades and decades in the future. Also make sure to do a living will.
- nicoburns 5y ago
  Well there's usually a way, but at least here in the UK it's illegal which makes it trickier than it needs to be. I'd much prefer there to be a painless way (carbon monoxide poisoning seems like it'd be the best option) which didn't involve my family having to deal with my body, or risking them getting prosecuted for assisting suicide if they knew about it (which would also be preferable - I'd like to be able to prepare them and say goodbye).

everforward 5y ago

This is probably more than most people are willing to accept, but if modern medicine keeps going the way it is, I think we're going to have to have some frank conversations about this. We're pretty good at preventing people from dying young, and we're pretty good at keeping the elderly barely alive. We're pretty bad at extending how long someone can take care of themselves. I don't think we can sustain a society where people work for 40 years and then are retired for another 40. Quality of life will need to drop substantially, or we'll need massive birth rates. You can start to see it with that new Alzheimer's drug, Aduhelm. Was originally $56,000 a year, and is now $28,000. The average prognosis for Alzheimer's is 8 years, so we would be talking about an increase of $224,000 in cost of care for an Alzheimer's patient. That's between 4 and 5 years of labor at the average wage in the US. Add in nursing home care, and it won't be shocking if a lot of people's end of life care exceeds their total lifetime earnings. I don't have a great solution for that. If insurers reduce coverage for end of life care, the effects are going to be mediated by personal wealth. The wealthy will be allowed to retire since they can pay for their own treatment, and the poor will only be allowed to die. You can tax the rich harder, but it's only going to delay the effects for a while.

nicoburns 5y ago
> This is probably more than most people are willing to accept You say that, but this a majority opinion amongst people I know both in my own age group (late twenties) and my parents age group (late fifties). My circles probably skew liberal, but even so I think that most people now have first-hand experience of elderly loved ones with dementia and the effects of that on both the person themselves and those who have to care for them. I can't see many people wanting that either for themselves of their descendants. > I don't think we can sustain a society where people work for 40 years and then are retired for another 40. Quality of life will need to drop substantially, or we'll need massive birth rates. And massive birth rates aren't sustainable either. That only pushes the problem back a few decades. This is why I'd ultimately prefer to my life to be cut short. The only alternative on a societal level is to work much harder while I am alive. I'd rather enjoy my time here and then go and let others have their turn.

stjohnswarts 5y ago

Just speaking hypothetically why wouldn't you have that option (I mean unless you were quadraplegic or just mentally completely out of it)? I have my own plan for that but hopefully that is decades and decades in the future. Also make sure to do a living will.

nicoburns 5y ago
Well there's usually a way, but at least here in the UK it's illegal which makes it trickier than it needs to be. I'd much prefer there to be a painless way (carbon monoxide poisoning seems like it'd be the best option) which didn't involve my family having to deal with my body, or risking them getting prosecuted for assisting suicide if they knew about it (which would also be preferable - I'd like to be able to prepare them and say goodbye).