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While your personal experience is heartwarming, others here point to what I would describe state-approved cruelty of effectively euthanizing elderly who got ser

While your personal experience is heartwarming, others here point to what I would describe state-approved cruelty of effectively euthanizing elderly who got seriously sick with covid earlier. That's not cool at all and even if now things are different its a right thing to point to these widespread failures that caused a lot of unnecessary death.

thematrixturtle 5y ago
Few elderly patients who end up on ventilators for COVID survive, plus the process is very painful and causes permanent damage if you survive. So morphine actually sounds like a pretty good way to go, assuming there's some form of informed consent.
- emj 5y ago
  The problem was that there were cases were consent was not given and of healthy 70 year olds having to fight for ventilators at least in the beginning. From what I understood a lot changed when people realized what was happening in June 2020, the paper is pretty vague about this it talks mainly about the first half of 2020.
emj 5y ago
That is a pretty extreme interpretation of the paper. That view is also not helpfull if you want to talk about the regional problems around Sweden, it has been mentioned in other comments here. The paper is just bringing up a discussion we have had since june 2020 in Sweden, I sure do not think we will not stop discussing it.
xorcist 5y ago
> state-approved cruelty of effectively euthanizing elderly Unless I got the discussion completely backwards, the point here was that these homes are not run by the state. They are either private or by small municipalities, and are not really intended to provide medical care in the same way as hospitals do. There are probably a lot of details here that's not at all obvious to an outsider of the system, exactly how the care is organized, paid for, and what medical facilities they can access, but I hope that they can learn and improve from this so the next pandemic do not hit the elderly quite this bad. That some other countries may or may not have been hit worse does not make it any better. This is not a competition.

thematrixturtle 5y ago

Few elderly patients who end up on ventilators for COVID survive, plus the process is very painful and causes permanent damage if you survive. So morphine actually sounds like a pretty good way to go, assuming there's some form of informed consent.

emj 5y ago
The problem was that there were cases were consent was not given and of healthy 70 year olds having to fight for ventilators at least in the beginning. From what I understood a lot changed when people realized what was happening in June 2020, the paper is pretty vague about this it talks mainly about the first half of 2020.

emj 5y ago

That is a pretty extreme interpretation of the paper. That view is also not helpfull if you want to talk about the regional problems around Sweden, it has been mentioned in other comments here. The paper is just bringing up a discussion we have had since june 2020 in Sweden, I sure do not think we will not stop discussing it.

xorcist 5y ago

> state-approved cruelty of effectively euthanizing elderly Unless I got the discussion completely backwards, the point here was that these homes are not run by the state. They are either private or by small municipalities, and are not really intended to provide medical care in the same way as hospitals do. There are probably a lot of details here that's not at all obvious to an outsider of the system, exactly how the care is organized, paid for, and what medical facilities they can access, but I hope that they can learn and improve from this so the next pandemic do not hit the elderly quite this bad. That some other countries may or may not have been hit worse does not make it any better. This is not a competition.