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What? Any attempt to regulate or restrict birth control against women is consistently held up as the “patriarchy” because it restricts women’s autonomy. Now not

What? Any attempt to regulate or restrict birth control against women is consistently held up as the “patriarchy” because it restricts women’s autonomy. Now not restricting it is patriarchy? Seems like literally everything is. So far, men’s birth controls haven’t been legalized because the risks have been pretty massive. The last trial I heard of had a massive risk of suicide. “Patriarchy” has no part of it.

nicoburns 5y ago
> The last trial I heard of had a massive risk of suicide. “Patriarchy” has no part of it. Existing birth control options for women also have high risk of mental health issues though. So people might reasonably question why were approved for women but not for men.
- slothtrop 5y ago
  A not-insignificant demographic that takes the pill do so in part to regulate hormones to the extent that it alleviates menstrual pain. It's not just to prevent pregnancy.
recuter 5y ago
If you were a true ally you would be more like Alex Hesse. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yabNRlqCCk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yabNRlqCCk
teknopaul 5y ago
Heard it said that "Patriarchy" played a horrible role in how the pill was developed and tested. In first trials in South America women stopped taking it, there were uninvestigated health issues and side effects and one death from bleeding without autopsy, but since no one got pregnant, it was declared a success. Not to say that modern options are not better. I think it's historically accurate to say early male pill investigations have been infinitely more concerned with male health. OK to be ashamed of that. If you live in a patriarchy many things are affected by it, even opiniones that appear contradictory.
- collegeburner 5y ago
  Agree 100%. I have so many female friends who felt a ton better after getting off. There's even some evidence to suggest that it changes women's mating preferences. But the pill is one of the sacred cows of that wave of feminism, so people don't like questioning it even though it fucks over women. But given the massive demand by women I wouldn't call it "patriarchy". The massively potent synthetic hormones used by the pill are showing up in water supplies now. To me that externality is enough reason to ban it, people don't get to expose guys to estrogenic shit so they can avoid pregnancy.
burnoutgal 5y ago
Women should have the option to control their own bodies - that means allowing birth control and abortion. It's also patriarchy at work that men would never tolerate even 1/10th of the risks women face in preventing pregnancy. Look at the responses to getting a small injection - "nobody would ever do that"! Hormonal birth control is great for some women, but terrible for others. It can also cause suicidality, but the side effects are routinely downplayed because women are expected to "deal with it". There's more research into how to keep men's hair from falling out and keep their dicks hard than there is into the most comfortable way to insert IUDs, or the side effects of hormonal birth control.
- slothtrop 5y ago
  > It's also patriarchy at work that men would never tolerate even 1/10th of the risks women face in preventing pregnancy. Based on what, anecdotes and your projection? Anecdotally many men have voiced that if they could endure the pain of childbirth in place of their wives, they would. But I suppose that doesn't fit the narrative.
  - lwkl 5y ago
    OP is talking about preventing pregnancy not about sharing the pain or risks in pregnancy. Of course a lot of men would share these with their partner. Women simply have a much higher incentive to prevent pregnancy because they are much more affected by pregnancy. The worst thing that happens for a man is that they have to pay alimony. Women face the risks of pregnancy and birth or an abortion.
    - slothtrop 5y ago
      > The worst thing that happens for a man is that they have to pay alimony. You mean child support, but more accurately: men would either be faced with raising the child also, or paying a hefty sum for almost 20 years. I guess that's easy to brush off? As for preventing pregnancy, plenty of men opt for vasectomies when they know having a kid is off the table. The rate is not as high in the U.S. as other countries in the West, but it's still 1/10.
stjohnswarts 5y ago
It's easy to blame an anomalous thing for all your woes I guess. The vast majority of men I know are 100% behind birth control for women and don't really care how they do it as long as they do it. I know that a ton of guys would be happy to take a male BC as long as it didn't kill them or cause severe symptoms. Nobody wants to have a surprise baby.

nicoburns 5y ago

> The last trial I heard of had a massive risk of suicide. “Patriarchy” has no part of it. Existing birth control options for women also have high risk of mental health issues though. So people might reasonably question why were approved for women but not for men.

slothtrop 5y ago
A not-insignificant demographic that takes the pill do so in part to regulate hormones to the extent that it alleviates menstrual pain. It's not just to prevent pregnancy.

recuter 5y ago

If you were a true ally you would be more like Alex Hesse. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yabNRlqCCk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yabNRlqCCk

teknopaul 5y ago

Heard it said that "Patriarchy" played a horrible role in how the pill was developed and tested. In first trials in South America women stopped taking it, there were uninvestigated health issues and side effects and one death from bleeding without autopsy, but since no one got pregnant, it was declared a success. Not to say that modern options are not better. I think it's historically accurate to say early male pill investigations have been infinitely more concerned with male health. OK to be ashamed of that. If you live in a patriarchy many things are affected by it, even opiniones that appear contradictory.

collegeburner 5y ago
Agree 100%. I have so many female friends who felt a ton better after getting off. There's even some evidence to suggest that it changes women's mating preferences. But the pill is one of the sacred cows of that wave of feminism, so people don't like questioning it even though it fucks over women. But given the massive demand by women I wouldn't call it "patriarchy". The massively potent synthetic hormones used by the pill are showing up in water supplies now. To me that externality is enough reason to ban it, people don't get to expose guys to estrogenic shit so they can avoid pregnancy.

burnoutgal 5y ago

Women should have the option to control their own bodies - that means allowing birth control and abortion. It's also patriarchy at work that men would never tolerate even 1/10th of the risks women face in preventing pregnancy. Look at the responses to getting a small injection - "nobody would ever do that"! Hormonal birth control is great for some women, but terrible for others. It can also cause suicidality, but the side effects are routinely downplayed because women are expected to "deal with it". There's more research into how to keep men's hair from falling out and keep their dicks hard than there is into the most comfortable way to insert IUDs, or the side effects of hormonal birth control.

slothtrop 5y ago
> It's also patriarchy at work that men would never tolerate even 1/10th of the risks women face in preventing pregnancy. Based on what, anecdotes and your projection? Anecdotally many men have voiced that if they could endure the pain of childbirth in place of their wives, they would. But I suppose that doesn't fit the narrative.
- lwkl 5y ago
  OP is talking about preventing pregnancy not about sharing the pain or risks in pregnancy. Of course a lot of men would share these with their partner. Women simply have a much higher incentive to prevent pregnancy because they are much more affected by pregnancy. The worst thing that happens for a man is that they have to pay alimony. Women face the risks of pregnancy and birth or an abortion.
  - slothtrop 5y ago
    > The worst thing that happens for a man is that they have to pay alimony. You mean child support, but more accurately: men would either be faced with raising the child also, or paying a hefty sum for almost 20 years. I guess that's easy to brush off? As for preventing pregnancy, plenty of men opt for vasectomies when they know having a kid is off the table. The rate is not as high in the U.S. as other countries in the West, but it's still 1/10.

stjohnswarts 5y ago

It's easy to blame an anomalous thing for all your woes I guess. The vast majority of men I know are 100% behind birth control for women and don't really care how they do it as long as they do it. I know that a ton of guys would be happy to take a male BC as long as it didn't kill them or cause severe symptoms. Nobody wants to have a surprise baby.