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The other strategies are clearly not working though. Birth rates have at best stayed steady or declined.

thatjoeoverthr 5y ago
What if they’re actually dumb and we need other other strategies? Something to think about before banning the pill. As a parent I find the environment extremely child-hostile. I don’t want to go into it here, I’m just pointing out there’s a lot of work one could do besides blocking a certain gender from equal access to birth control pills.
- Mirioron 5y ago
  >Something to think about before banning the pill. Regardless whether the strategies are bad or not, banning contraceptives should never be on the table. >As a parent I find the environment extremely child-hostile. It might be child-hostile, but is how child-hostile the environment is actually a consideration? The situation for having children has never been better, but birthrates are some of the lowest they have ever been.
everdrive 5y ago
The rough transition aside, would it be so bad to return to lower population levels? The only thing I'm sad about is that I won't live to see the population decline rather than increase.
- zmgsabst 5y ago
  Yes — it’s absolutely psychotic to hope for a mass loss of human life and the decline of our species. There’s no reason to think it would make things better — and many to think a massive population decline would come with a technology regression and stall of our advancement. I think such ideas are a form of mental illness, often stemming from delusions about the world.
  - GekkePrutser 5y ago
    Not a decline but a stabilisation. That's really what's needed to make our planet sustainable. Right now the absolute worst thing you can do for the environment is to have a child as a westerner. And we're not hoping for loss of life. Just a more balanced population in the long term. We can't keep growing until every square meter of this planet is covered with people, I'm sure that's clear. Eventually resources will be constrained too much and massive wars over control of the scraps will be inevitable. Which will solve the problem of overpopulation, sure. But it'll be better to gradually reduce population growth to zero and finally reach a balance with our environment. Nobody is speaking of a massive decline.
    - kiba 5y ago
      We will probably be more constrained by heat dissipation than resources. The problem is not running out of material or energy, but the effect of pollution.
    - mensetmanusman 5y ago
      “Right now the absolute worst thing you can do for the environment is to have a child as a westerner.” By this logic one can rationally claim the best thing you can do for the environment is to die.
      - dane-pgp 5y ago
        Or to kill. We need to be really careful that in our haste to make progress in environmental protection and gender equality, we don't find ourselves heading down the dark path towards eugenics or self-extinction.
        pessimizer 5y ago
        Or to not have children that you don't want, which is what the discussion is about. We don't avoid killing ourselves or others because of its effects on the environment, which are great. We avoid killing ourselves and others due to other considerations. I bet you can name some so I don't have to.
- Mirioron 5y ago
  As a species on the planet? No, there's nothing bad about it. But it's going to be bad politically. It will shake up the power of countries when population numbers change and no country wants to give to power.
GekkePrutser 5y ago
They should keep going down if we want to save this planet. Our population growth is unsustainable. It'll cause some demographic issues in the short term but we'll just have to deal with that.
- colechristensen 5y ago
  Advanced economies are only growing via immigration, there is no population growth through reproduction. Also the planet will be just fine, it is us we’re worried about.
  - GekkePrutser 5y ago
    If you define the planet as just a rock spinning around the sun then yes. I would define it as a complex ecosystem of interconnected species and we're doing a lot of damage to that that goes far beyond ourselves.
lvturner 5y ago
We tried nothing and it didn’t work! Best give up!

What if they’re actually dumb and we need other other strategies? Something to think about before banning the pill. As a parent I find the environment extremely child-hostile. I don’t want to go into it here, I’m just pointing out there’s a lot of work one could do besides blocking a certain gender from equal access to birth control pills.

Mirioron 5y ago
>Something to think about before banning the pill. Regardless whether the strategies are bad or not, banning contraceptives should never be on the table. >As a parent I find the environment extremely child-hostile. It might be child-hostile, but is how child-hostile the environment is actually a consideration? The situation for having children has never been better, but birthrates are some of the lowest they have ever been.

everdrive 5y ago

The rough transition aside, would it be so bad to return to lower population levels? The only thing I'm sad about is that I won't live to see the population decline rather than increase.

zmgsabst 5y ago
Yes — it’s absolutely psychotic to hope for a mass loss of human life and the decline of our species. There’s no reason to think it would make things better — and many to think a massive population decline would come with a technology regression and stall of our advancement. I think such ideas are a form of mental illness, often stemming from delusions about the world.
- GekkePrutser 5y ago
  Not a decline but a stabilisation. That's really what's needed to make our planet sustainable. Right now the absolute worst thing you can do for the environment is to have a child as a westerner. And we're not hoping for loss of life. Just a more balanced population in the long term. We can't keep growing until every square meter of this planet is covered with people, I'm sure that's clear. Eventually resources will be constrained too much and massive wars over control of the scraps will be inevitable. Which will solve the problem of overpopulation, sure. But it'll be better to gradually reduce population growth to zero and finally reach a balance with our environment. Nobody is speaking of a massive decline.
  - kiba 5y ago
    We will probably be more constrained by heat dissipation than resources. The problem is not running out of material or energy, but the effect of pollution.
  - mensetmanusman 5y ago
    “Right now the absolute worst thing you can do for the environment is to have a child as a westerner.” By this logic one can rationally claim the best thing you can do for the environment is to die.
    - dane-pgp 5y ago
      Or to kill. We need to be really careful that in our haste to make progress in environmental protection and gender equality, we don't find ourselves heading down the dark path towards eugenics or self-extinction.
      - pessimizer 5y ago
        Or to not have children that you don't want, which is what the discussion is about. We don't avoid killing ourselves or others because of its effects on the environment, which are great. We avoid killing ourselves and others due to other considerations. I bet you can name some so I don't have to.
Mirioron 5y ago
As a species on the planet? No, there's nothing bad about it. But it's going to be bad politically. It will shake up the power of countries when population numbers change and no country wants to give to power.

GekkePrutser 5y ago

They should keep going down if we want to save this planet. Our population growth is unsustainable. It'll cause some demographic issues in the short term but we'll just have to deal with that.

colechristensen 5y ago
Advanced economies are only growing via immigration, there is no population growth through reproduction. Also the planet will be just fine, it is us we’re worried about.
- GekkePrutser 5y ago
  If you define the planet as just a rock spinning around the sun then yes. I would define it as a complex ecosystem of interconnected species and we're doing a lot of damage to that that goes far beyond ourselves.

lvturner 5y ago

We tried nothing and it didn’t work! Best give up!