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I'm sorry you're confounded. The way I see it, neo-nazi elements exist in many societies and they're not invading cities with tanks and shelling residential bl

I'm sorry you're confounded. The way I see it, neo-nazi elements exist in many societies and they're not invading cities with tanks and shelling residential blocks. Nazis are a hypothetical danger in the future, Russians are a real danger right now. It doesn't confound me that the mainstream media, which is mostly entertainment and little information anyway, simplifies and focuses only on the most relevant elements of a story. In fact, in this case it's a good thing they do, lest less informed people get confounded about how big an element the far-right is in this story.

unmole 5y ago
> neo-nazi elements exist in many societies and they're not invading cities with tanks and shelling residential blocks. Sure. But organized neo-Nazi militias exist in very few societies. And they are embedded into the national gendarmerie in even fewer cases. Mariupol is of little strategic significance. The only plausible explanation for Russia's obsession with the city is for narrative reasons.
- inglor_cz 5y ago
  Mariupol is on the Azov Sea coastline and the Russians seem to be intent on building a land connection between Crimea and Donetsk. The city and port are literally in the way. This is as strategic as it goes.
  - unmole 5y ago
    > Mariupol is on the Azov Sea coastline A sea that Russia controls. > Intent on building a land connection between Crimea and Donetsk. Which can be accomplished by surrounding Mariupol. A besieged city, cut off from any reinforcements and supply lines is hardly a strategic threat.
    - inglor_cz 5y ago
      Kaliningrad is an exclave too and yet it sits in the EU's territory like a sore thumb. Pre-WWII Germans were very unhappy about Danzig. Ukraine as a whole isn't really a strategic threat to a country of size and power of Russia, but I don't think that cool rationality prevails in the Kremlin right now. Their concept of "strategy" is much more imperial than what we are used to.
      - unmole 5y ago
        > Kaliningrad is an exclave too and yet it sits in the EU's territory like a sore thumb. I don't think anyone is really too bothered about Kaliningrad. Are they? It's not like Germany wants it back or anything. > Russia, but I don't think that cool rationality prevails in the Kremlin right now. Their concept of "strategy" is much more imperial than what we are used to. Oh, I don't disagree with it this at all. But the only way Putin can back down while still saving face is by pretending that the invasion actually acomplished something. If you wanted to justify the invasion on the grounds of Denazificatiom, it helps to take over the base of the only unit that can tenably be called neo-Nazi.
        trasz 5y ago
        Germans won’t, but Poland might want it back. Russia needs to bleed out first though.
      - acthrowthrow123 5y ago
        > Pre-WWII Germans were very unhappy about Danzig. Good point but I think 'unhappy' is understatement. Germany did ultimatum to Poland that they want to have a land corridor to Danzig. Poland said no and Germany invaded Poland later on. So there is a lot of similarity in current situation in a way that current Russia == old Germany
- relativ575 5y ago
  > Sure. But organized neo-Nazi militias exist in very few societies. And they are embedded into the national gendarmerie in even fewer cases. Which are those very few? And how are they embedded into national gendarmerie there? Why Russia don't wage war in those few, only Ukraine? maybe because they exist in Russia as well: https://theconversation.com/putins-fascists-the-russian-states-long-history-of-cultivating-homegrown-neo-nazis-178535 https://theconversation.com/putins-fascists-the-russian-stat... Or a more thorough research: https://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/id/eprint/1514596/1/Wales.pdf https://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/id/eprint/1514596/1/Wales.pdf To quote: "There has been a large increase in nationalistic and xenophobic attitudes amongst Russian youth, and Russians in general, since the collapse of the Soviet Union. In addition, under Putin nationalism has become a conspicuous political and social force"
  - unmole 5y ago
    There are organised neo-Nazi militias in Russia? Neither of the articles you linked to suggest anything of the sort.

unmole 5y ago

> neo-nazi elements exist in many societies and they're not invading cities with tanks and shelling residential blocks. Sure. But organized neo-Nazi militias exist in very few societies. And they are embedded into the national gendarmerie in even fewer cases. Mariupol is of little strategic significance. The only plausible explanation for Russia's obsession with the city is for narrative reasons.

inglor_cz 5y ago
Mariupol is on the Azov Sea coastline and the Russians seem to be intent on building a land connection between Crimea and Donetsk. The city and port are literally in the way. This is as strategic as it goes.
- unmole 5y ago
  > Mariupol is on the Azov Sea coastline A sea that Russia controls. > Intent on building a land connection between Crimea and Donetsk. Which can be accomplished by surrounding Mariupol. A besieged city, cut off from any reinforcements and supply lines is hardly a strategic threat.
  - inglor_cz 5y ago
    Kaliningrad is an exclave too and yet it sits in the EU's territory like a sore thumb. Pre-WWII Germans were very unhappy about Danzig. Ukraine as a whole isn't really a strategic threat to a country of size and power of Russia, but I don't think that cool rationality prevails in the Kremlin right now. Their concept of "strategy" is much more imperial than what we are used to.
    - unmole 5y ago
      > Kaliningrad is an exclave too and yet it sits in the EU's territory like a sore thumb. I don't think anyone is really too bothered about Kaliningrad. Are they? It's not like Germany wants it back or anything. > Russia, but I don't think that cool rationality prevails in the Kremlin right now. Their concept of "strategy" is much more imperial than what we are used to. Oh, I don't disagree with it this at all. But the only way Putin can back down while still saving face is by pretending that the invasion actually acomplished something. If you wanted to justify the invasion on the grounds of Denazificatiom, it helps to take over the base of the only unit that can tenably be called neo-Nazi.
      - trasz 5y ago
        Germans won’t, but Poland might want it back. Russia needs to bleed out first though.
    - acthrowthrow123 5y ago
      > Pre-WWII Germans were very unhappy about Danzig. Good point but I think 'unhappy' is understatement. Germany did ultimatum to Poland that they want to have a land corridor to Danzig. Poland said no and Germany invaded Poland later on. So there is a lot of similarity in current situation in a way that current Russia == old Germany
relativ575 5y ago
> Sure. But organized neo-Nazi militias exist in very few societies. And they are embedded into the national gendarmerie in even fewer cases. Which are those very few? And how are they embedded into national gendarmerie there? Why Russia don't wage war in those few, only Ukraine? maybe because they exist in Russia as well: https://theconversation.com/putins-fascists-the-russian-states-long-history-of-cultivating-homegrown-neo-nazis-178535 https://theconversation.com/putins-fascists-the-russian-stat... Or a more thorough research: https://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/id/eprint/1514596/1/Wales.pdf https://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/id/eprint/1514596/1/Wales.pdf To quote: "There has been a large increase in nationalistic and xenophobic attitudes amongst Russian youth, and Russians in general, since the collapse of the Soviet Union. In addition, under Putin nationalism has become a conspicuous political and social force"
- unmole 5y ago
  There are organised neo-Nazi militias in Russia? Neither of the articles you linked to suggest anything of the sort.