6 ms·

I think it's a modern western cultural thing that everything that's more 'natural', 'untreated', 'non-GMO'... is automatically considered more healthy, see also

by folli 5y ago

I think it's a modern western cultural thing that everything that's more 'natural', 'untreated', 'non-GMO'... is automatically considered more healthy, see also antivaxxers etc. Without any evidence of course.

mc32 5y ago
Further: see ‘raw water’. As far as I can tell it’s mostly high income earners who fall for these fads, outside of those stuck in the wilderness without treated water. It defies logic.
- viraptor 5y ago
  And if your want to see full crazy, check https://old.reddit.com/r/RawMeat/ https://old.reddit.com/r/RawMeat/ > Vomit, diarrhea, coughing, sneezing, sweating, are all ways that the body expels toxins.
  - RealityVoid 5y ago
    Technically, at least vomit, really is a self protection mechanism of the body.
    - Thiez 5y ago
      But the only 'toxins' it can get rid of are those you recently consumed, not the vague and unspecified toxins that the diet people claim build up in your body and must be purged.
  - mc32 5y ago
    It's taken us hundreds of thousands of years to achieve the benefits of civilization and to have people illogically throw all that out. It's mazing.
  - andi999 5y ago
    What is wrong with raw meat? Here you can buy raw minced pork for direct consumption (on bread rolls) almost everywhere. Why should ppl get sick from that?
    - jamiek88 5y ago
      That’s all they eat. Just raw meat.
      - andi999 5y ago
        I agree. I had a look at the reddit, yes there is something wrong with them.
    - b112 5y ago
      Raw pork meat is not fine, as pork can have many worms, and other things, humans can catch. Cooking kills these things. People eat raw eggs in North America, but that's safe because of antibiotics in chicken feed. Salmonella can kill. Beef is safer, which is why you only need char the outside to be safe.
      - SapporoChris 5y ago
        Salmonella outbreaks in USA are fairly commonly reported by the CDC. I was able to quickly find three listings for salmonella in eggs. July 26, 2018 https://www.cdc.gov/salmonella/braenderup-04-18/index.html https://www.cdc.gov/salmonella/braenderup-04-18/index.html November 9, 2016 https://www.cdc.gov/salmonella/oranienburg-10-16/index.html https://www.cdc.gov/salmonella/oranienburg-10-16/index.html December 2, 2010 https://www.cdc.gov/salmonella/2010/shell-eggs-12-2-10.html https://www.cdc.gov/salmonella/2010/shell-eggs-12-2-10.html Regarding ground beef https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/ehs/ehsnet/plain_language/restaurants-ground-beef-handling-cooking.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/ehs/ehsnet/plain_language/restauran... Grilling various meats https://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/communication/bbq-iq.html https://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/communication/bbq-iq.html Both of these go far beyond just char the outside to be safe.
        5y ago
  - tsimionescu 5y ago
    That's not even close to full crazy. In Romania there was a somewhat famous lifestly guru who advocates for this type of all natural lifestyle, in an all-vegan variant (Olivia Steer). She was asked by a follower who wanted to get pregnant but was no longer menstruating after following her advice whether she should change her diet or try some medication. The response was along the lines of "No, no, no! The fact that you're no longer menstruating is proof that you are now rid of toxins! Menses are simply the body eliminating toxins. Just keep trying to conceive, and try some <herbal tea> if you're still having trouble". To be clear, this is coming from a 30 year old woman with two children of her own...
RealityVoid 5y ago
It's like it stems from some sort of self-hatred, as if we have this belief deep down that we are wrong or corrupted and whatever we are not MUST be good. These naturalistic fallacies are certainly a strange, ilogical thing, but one at the core belief of _many_ people. I wonder if it's a western thing though and if we don't find it in other cultures as well.
- yongjik 5y ago
  It's not really a western thing, it's just that "natural" stuff is much more expensive to produce in a modern industrial world, so --- naturally --- it's perceived as higher quality. Centuries ago sugar was extremely expensive in Korea. Kings would use it as a medicine when they were sick.
- bawolff 5y ago
  I can understand the logical leap that people took to get there: Most processed food in western diets are unhealthy for you. Usually because the processing basically means very high in sugar, and relatively low nutritionally. It doesn't take much to go from that data point to a rule of thumb "natural = good". Especially if you combine it with a mistrust of large corporations that you believe prioritize profits over ethics (not exactly a huge leap) - where you think that the stuff they make is bad, but "natural" things they didn't have a hand in cant be corrupted by them. Real life is much more complex than that, but i can see the chain of logic people use.
- qwertox 5y ago
  I'm not really sure if it's that. If you look at the ingredient list of most of the products you buy, there's a ton of things in there which can cause allergies or other problems, if you consume too much of them. It's ok to want something in its most natural form, but you have to make sure that the body is designed to deal with it. Like, don't eat raw potatoes or drink raw milk.
- 7952 5y ago
  You can't base every decision you make on well researched science though. Everyone develops their own heuristics to make decisions. I think naturalness is just one of those. And within a limited set of choices it is probably a pretty good heuristic.
vt85 5y ago
DantesKite 5y ago
I would put GMO's in a completely different risk category to all the others, because of the tail risk involved and something to consider thoughtfully before introducing into an environment. https://www.fooledbyrandomness.com/pp2.pdf https://www.fooledbyrandomness.com/pp2.pdf
rightbyte 5y ago
If you eat "natural" (I dislike the term) food you have a chance of cutting away additive sugar that the manufacturer add way too much of in most ready made products. I.e. you get better food for an indirect reason. Like if you make your own müsli you might not add sugar, which the companies add to increase sales, and have more of the expensive nuts, that they cut down in share to increase margins since noone notices the difference between 2.3% expensive nuts and 2.2% until there is almost no left ...
- ithkuil 5y ago
  Yes, it often also boils down to giving it just a bit more of "care" (time, money) when producing and consuming. This extends to other related topics as well. For example I had a colleague who went vegan and this meant she actually started to cook and care about the meals. This opened up a whole new dimension to life. I guess much depends also on where you happen the live and/or be brought up, and how strong the food culture is.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

by folli 5y ago

mc32 5y ago

Further: see ‘raw water’. As far as I can tell it’s mostly high income earners who fall for these fads, outside of those stuck in the wilderness without treated water. It defies logic.

viraptor 5y ago
And if your want to see full crazy, check https://old.reddit.com/r/RawMeat/ https://old.reddit.com/r/RawMeat/ > Vomit, diarrhea, coughing, sneezing, sweating, are all ways that the body expels toxins.
- RealityVoid 5y ago
  Technically, at least vomit, really is a self protection mechanism of the body.
  - Thiez 5y ago
    But the only 'toxins' it can get rid of are those you recently consumed, not the vague and unspecified toxins that the diet people claim build up in your body and must be purged.
- mc32 5y ago
  It's taken us hundreds of thousands of years to achieve the benefits of civilization and to have people illogically throw all that out. It's mazing.
- andi999 5y ago
  What is wrong with raw meat? Here you can buy raw minced pork for direct consumption (on bread rolls) almost everywhere. Why should ppl get sick from that?
  - jamiek88 5y ago
    That’s all they eat. Just raw meat.
    - andi999 5y ago
      I agree. I had a look at the reddit, yes there is something wrong with them.
  - b112 5y ago
    Raw pork meat is not fine, as pork can have many worms, and other things, humans can catch. Cooking kills these things. People eat raw eggs in North America, but that's safe because of antibiotics in chicken feed. Salmonella can kill. Beef is safer, which is why you only need char the outside to be safe.
    - SapporoChris 5y ago
      Salmonella outbreaks in USA are fairly commonly reported by the CDC. I was able to quickly find three listings for salmonella in eggs. July 26, 2018 https://www.cdc.gov/salmonella/braenderup-04-18/index.html https://www.cdc.gov/salmonella/braenderup-04-18/index.html November 9, 2016 https://www.cdc.gov/salmonella/oranienburg-10-16/index.html https://www.cdc.gov/salmonella/oranienburg-10-16/index.html December 2, 2010 https://www.cdc.gov/salmonella/2010/shell-eggs-12-2-10.html https://www.cdc.gov/salmonella/2010/shell-eggs-12-2-10.html Regarding ground beef https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/ehs/ehsnet/plain_language/restaurants-ground-beef-handling-cooking.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/ehs/ehsnet/plain_language/restauran... Grilling various meats https://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/communication/bbq-iq.html https://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/communication/bbq-iq.html Both of these go far beyond just char the outside to be safe.
      - 5y ago
- tsimionescu 5y ago
  That's not even close to full crazy. In Romania there was a somewhat famous lifestly guru who advocates for this type of all natural lifestyle, in an all-vegan variant (Olivia Steer). She was asked by a follower who wanted to get pregnant but was no longer menstruating after following her advice whether she should change her diet or try some medication. The response was along the lines of "No, no, no! The fact that you're no longer menstruating is proof that you are now rid of toxins! Menses are simply the body eliminating toxins. Just keep trying to conceive, and try some <herbal tea> if you're still having trouble". To be clear, this is coming from a 30 year old woman with two children of her own...

RealityVoid 5y ago

It's like it stems from some sort of self-hatred, as if we have this belief deep down that we are wrong or corrupted and whatever we are not MUST be good. These naturalistic fallacies are certainly a strange, ilogical thing, but one at the core belief of _many_ people. I wonder if it's a western thing though and if we don't find it in other cultures as well.

yongjik 5y ago
It's not really a western thing, it's just that "natural" stuff is much more expensive to produce in a modern industrial world, so --- naturally --- it's perceived as higher quality. Centuries ago sugar was extremely expensive in Korea. Kings would use it as a medicine when they were sick.
bawolff 5y ago
I can understand the logical leap that people took to get there: Most processed food in western diets are unhealthy for you. Usually because the processing basically means very high in sugar, and relatively low nutritionally. It doesn't take much to go from that data point to a rule of thumb "natural = good". Especially if you combine it with a mistrust of large corporations that you believe prioritize profits over ethics (not exactly a huge leap) - where you think that the stuff they make is bad, but "natural" things they didn't have a hand in cant be corrupted by them. Real life is much more complex than that, but i can see the chain of logic people use.
qwertox 5y ago
I'm not really sure if it's that. If you look at the ingredient list of most of the products you buy, there's a ton of things in there which can cause allergies or other problems, if you consume too much of them. It's ok to want something in its most natural form, but you have to make sure that the body is designed to deal with it. Like, don't eat raw potatoes or drink raw milk.
7952 5y ago
You can't base every decision you make on well researched science though. Everyone develops their own heuristics to make decisions. I think naturalness is just one of those. And within a limited set of choices it is probably a pretty good heuristic.

vt85 5y ago

DantesKite 5y ago

I would put GMO's in a completely different risk category to all the others, because of the tail risk involved and something to consider thoughtfully before introducing into an environment. https://www.fooledbyrandomness.com/pp2.pdf https://www.fooledbyrandomness.com/pp2.pdf

rightbyte 5y ago

If you eat "natural" (I dislike the term) food you have a chance of cutting away additive sugar that the manufacturer add way too much of in most ready made products. I.e. you get better food for an indirect reason. Like if you make your own müsli you might not add sugar, which the companies add to increase sales, and have more of the expensive nuts, that they cut down in share to increase margins since noone notices the difference between 2.3% expensive nuts and 2.2% until there is almost no left ...

ithkuil 5y ago
Yes, it often also boils down to giving it just a bit more of "care" (time, money) when producing and consuming. This extends to other related topics as well. For example I had a colleague who went vegan and this meant she actually started to cook and care about the meals. This opened up a whole new dimension to life. I guess much depends also on where you happen the live and/or be brought up, and how strong the food culture is.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]