4 ms·

Good to see the general purpose computer in your pocket being recognised as one.

by dm319 5y ago

olliej 5y ago
No talk of extending it to cover consoles though, despite them also being general purpose
- Apocryphon 5y ago
  What general purposes do game consoles serve, other than being multimedia centers? Do users use the browser and other internet features on consoles extensively? Can you make payments, hail a ride, order food with them? Can you contact emergency services with them? Can they save your literal life?
  - car_analogy 5y ago
    Exactly. They are general purpose computers, artificially crippled by their manufacturer, to prevent their (supposed) owner from using their full potential.
    - lwansbrough 5y ago
      This is a silly argument. Nobody is checking their bank account on their Xbox. We can acknowledge that iPhones are needlessly closed platforms while also acknowledging that there are legitimate purpose-built computers in various form factors (gaming consoles being a good example.)
      - car_analogy 5y ago
        That is exactly the point. There is nothing inherent in an Xbox that prevents it from running a web browser. Only our collective acceptance of the practice of denying users control of their devices, and letting these arbitrary restrictions contribute to e-waste.
        Apocryphon 5y ago
        To be fair, if one supports the Right to Repair, one should probably also support the legalizing of mod chips.
        Dah00n 5y ago
        Then the same argument covers a cars computer.
        paulryanrogers 5y ago
        Computers controlling the car's movement should be isolated and ideally certified as fit to control large and dangerous vehicles. Media computers could be subject to the same side loading regulations since compromise should only impact non-critical functions.
      - olliej 5y ago
        Because they can't? People were making a lot of noise about Sony retroactively removing functionality not too long ago. But even if we accept the bogus argument that a console (a behemoth CPU with 100s of watts of power available) is not a general purpose system, that's not relevant: Why should a company have to go through Sony or Microsoft's stores to buy games for their console? What makes consoles somehow different from phones? - I would put money on the primary apps people buy from the App Store being games? Claiming the Sony/MS make a loss on console sales isn't relevant either - firstly because they're charging ~30% on games with an average sale price in the region of $60 they make up that "loss" very quickly, secondly neither company expends significant (any?) resources developing features for their consoles once they've been sold (vs. Apple that is still providing major updates and functionality to devices 5 years after they stopped being sold)
      - thiht 5y ago
        I actually used to do it. When I was younger, my parents offered me a PS3 and I had no personal computer of my own. So I installed Ubuntu on my PS3 (it was possible at the time, until a later patch where they disallowed it) and used it both as a desktop computer and as a PS3. That was pretty cool. A PS5 today could easily run whatever desktop OS.
  - Dracophoenix 5y ago
    The PS2 was good enough to run Linux. The Xbox One and Series X run Windows 10 under the hood.
    - ohgodplsno 5y ago
      For a very specific definition of Windows 10. It is extremely stripped down and with a wildly different set of APIs in many places, it's just that it supports D3D and XAML
  - ciupicri 5y ago
    What general purposes do phones serve, other than making and receiving _audio_ calls?
    - NoSorryCannot 5y ago
      Smartphones are general-purpose devices not just in potential but in practice. I think we're beyond pretending that they are just phones.
    - aaomidi 5y ago
      Phones can (even right now, with the limitations placed by Apple, Google) do everything a computer can. Capacity limits apply, but the general activities that a laptop/pc can do, a phone can as well.
- paxys 5y ago
  Game consoles are very far from general purpose.
  - olliej 5y ago
    So are phones?
    - paxys 5y ago
      Not really. Most of the planet uses a smartphone as their primary (and sometimes only) computing device. As time goes on there are fewer and fewer use cases that still require a full desktop environment and OS.
- aaomidi 5y ago
  I personally wish they did. However, I think consoles have always been "consume media" devices in peoples minds. Maybe with steam deck (assuming it can get any level of popularity that xbox/ps have) we might see attitudes shift towards them. A lot of these lawmakers are unaware of the exact internals of these devices. Phones can do everything realistically. Manage your bank accounts, pay your taxes, find jobs, make calls, consume media. Heck they can do more than your average laptop/computer - and this is self-evident for lawmakers. The same can not (yet) be said for consoles. Anyway, I do hope we take more of these steps in the future. At the very least it reduces ewaste.

Good to see the general purpose computer in your pocket being recognised as one.

by dm319 5y ago

Good to see the general purpose computer in your pocket being recognised as one.

olliej 5y ago

No talk of extending it to cover consoles though, despite them also being general purpose

Apocryphon 5y ago
What general purposes do game consoles serve, other than being multimedia centers? Do users use the browser and other internet features on consoles extensively? Can you make payments, hail a ride, order food with them? Can you contact emergency services with them? Can they save your literal life?
- car_analogy 5y ago
  Exactly. They are general purpose computers, artificially crippled by their manufacturer, to prevent their (supposed) owner from using their full potential.
  - lwansbrough 5y ago
    This is a silly argument. Nobody is checking their bank account on their Xbox. We can acknowledge that iPhones are needlessly closed platforms while also acknowledging that there are legitimate purpose-built computers in various form factors (gaming consoles being a good example.)
    - car_analogy 5y ago
      That is exactly the point. There is nothing inherent in an Xbox that prevents it from running a web browser. Only our collective acceptance of the practice of denying users control of their devices, and letting these arbitrary restrictions contribute to e-waste.
      - Apocryphon 5y ago
        To be fair, if one supports the Right to Repair, one should probably also support the legalizing of mod chips.
      - Dah00n 5y ago
        Then the same argument covers a cars computer.
        paulryanrogers 5y ago
        Computers controlling the car's movement should be isolated and ideally certified as fit to control large and dangerous vehicles. Media computers could be subject to the same side loading regulations since compromise should only impact non-critical functions.
    - olliej 5y ago
      Because they can't? People were making a lot of noise about Sony retroactively removing functionality not too long ago. But even if we accept the bogus argument that a console (a behemoth CPU with 100s of watts of power available) is not a general purpose system, that's not relevant: Why should a company have to go through Sony or Microsoft's stores to buy games for their console? What makes consoles somehow different from phones? - I would put money on the primary apps people buy from the App Store being games? Claiming the Sony/MS make a loss on console sales isn't relevant either - firstly because they're charging ~30% on games with an average sale price in the region of $60 they make up that "loss" very quickly, secondly neither company expends significant (any?) resources developing features for their consoles once they've been sold (vs. Apple that is still providing major updates and functionality to devices 5 years after they stopped being sold)
    - thiht 5y ago
      I actually used to do it. When I was younger, my parents offered me a PS3 and I had no personal computer of my own. So I installed Ubuntu on my PS3 (it was possible at the time, until a later patch where they disallowed it) and used it both as a desktop computer and as a PS3. That was pretty cool. A PS5 today could easily run whatever desktop OS.
- Dracophoenix 5y ago
  The PS2 was good enough to run Linux. The Xbox One and Series X run Windows 10 under the hood.
  - ohgodplsno 5y ago
    For a very specific definition of Windows 10. It is extremely stripped down and with a wildly different set of APIs in many places, it's just that it supports D3D and XAML
- ciupicri 5y ago
  What general purposes do phones serve, other than making and receiving _audio_ calls?
  - NoSorryCannot 5y ago
    Smartphones are general-purpose devices not just in potential but in practice. I think we're beyond pretending that they are just phones.
  - aaomidi 5y ago
    Phones can (even right now, with the limitations placed by Apple, Google) do everything a computer can. Capacity limits apply, but the general activities that a laptop/pc can do, a phone can as well.
paxys 5y ago
Game consoles are very far from general purpose.
- olliej 5y ago
  So are phones?
  - paxys 5y ago
    Not really. Most of the planet uses a smartphone as their primary (and sometimes only) computing device. As time goes on there are fewer and fewer use cases that still require a full desktop environment and OS.
aaomidi 5y ago
I personally wish they did. However, I think consoles have always been "consume media" devices in peoples minds. Maybe with steam deck (assuming it can get any level of popularity that xbox/ps have) we might see attitudes shift towards them. A lot of these lawmakers are unaware of the exact internals of these devices. Phones can do everything realistically. Manage your bank accounts, pay your taxes, find jobs, make calls, consume media. Heck they can do more than your average laptop/computer - and this is self-evident for lawmakers. The same can not (yet) be said for consoles. Anyway, I do hope we take more of these steps in the future. At the very least it reduces ewaste.