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> Why was unemployment so much lower five years ago than now? Did people just get really lazy? Could the raise of the minimum wage have something to do with in

by uriel 15y ago

> Why was unemployment so much lower five years ago than now? Did people just get really lazy? Could the raise of the minimum wage have something to do with increased unemployment?

srdev 15y ago
Perhaps, but is minimum wage actually a living wage? Would the greater economy adjust to make that wage livable if it was removed? I really don't have the answer to these questions, but I think its important to remember that just because someone is employed doesn't mean that they are in a good position.
- uriel 15y ago
  > Perhaps, but is minimum wage actually a living wage? What is a 'living wage'? > just because someone is employed doesn't mean that they are in a good position. They certainly are in a better position than somebody who is unemployed. As Thomas Sowell pointed out: The real minimum wage is always zero: unemployment. All the minimum wage does is distort the labour market to favour automation and highly skilled workers over the inexperienced and low skilled. Basically, it hurts precisely the people it was supposed to help.
  - srdev 15y ago
    Good points all around. How I define a living wage: Enough income for a 1 BR apartment, 3 square meals a day (from a grocery store, not a resturaunt), and health care. Basically, the bare minimum. I'm not skilled enough in economics to be sure whether removing minimum wage would benefit workers. My suspicion is that it would, and you have made a good argument to that affect. I just feel the need to play the devil's advocate. Thanks for your input. By the way, are you the same Uriel as the one on Reddit?
    - uriel 15y ago
      Glad that you are quite open minded and ready to listen to new points on this topic, most people seem to prefer to ignore logic and evidence and instead follow what feels good. > How I define a living wage: Enough income for a 1 BR apartment, 3 square meals a day (from a grocery store, not a resturaunt), and health care. Basically, the bare minimum. The "bare minimum" is quite different if for example you are a student living with your parents that is working to help pay for university, or if you have children, or a working spouse, or savings. Not to mention the HUGE differences in cost for the things you mention in different locations within the same country or even state. For more info and links to many studies on the topic see: http://harmful.cat-v.org/economics/minimum-wage/ http://harmful.cat-v.org/economics/minimum-wage/ And yes, I'm the same uriel as in reddit :)
jeffool 15y ago
I always wonder about this argument. Wouldn't it be more about the VALUE of the minimum wage, and not the number associated with it? I mean, the minimum wage was far higher in value in 1968. And don't some nations reevaluate the value of their minimum wage annually, adjusting for de/inflation? That seems reasonable to me. And stops the arguments over when/if to increase it. (Though of course many obviously believe we shouldn't have it, but that's a different conversation.)

by uriel 15y ago

> Why was unemployment so much lower five years ago than now? Did people just get really lazy? Could the raise of the minimum wage have something to do with increased unemployment?

srdev 15y ago

Perhaps, but is minimum wage actually a living wage? Would the greater economy adjust to make that wage livable if it was removed? I really don't have the answer to these questions, but I think its important to remember that just because someone is employed doesn't mean that they are in a good position.

uriel 15y ago
> Perhaps, but is minimum wage actually a living wage? What is a 'living wage'? > just because someone is employed doesn't mean that they are in a good position. They certainly are in a better position than somebody who is unemployed. As Thomas Sowell pointed out: The real minimum wage is always zero: unemployment. All the minimum wage does is distort the labour market to favour automation and highly skilled workers over the inexperienced and low skilled. Basically, it hurts precisely the people it was supposed to help.
- srdev 15y ago
  Good points all around. How I define a living wage: Enough income for a 1 BR apartment, 3 square meals a day (from a grocery store, not a resturaunt), and health care. Basically, the bare minimum. I'm not skilled enough in economics to be sure whether removing minimum wage would benefit workers. My suspicion is that it would, and you have made a good argument to that affect. I just feel the need to play the devil's advocate. Thanks for your input. By the way, are you the same Uriel as the one on Reddit?
  - uriel 15y ago
    Glad that you are quite open minded and ready to listen to new points on this topic, most people seem to prefer to ignore logic and evidence and instead follow what feels good. > How I define a living wage: Enough income for a 1 BR apartment, 3 square meals a day (from a grocery store, not a resturaunt), and health care. Basically, the bare minimum. The "bare minimum" is quite different if for example you are a student living with your parents that is working to help pay for university, or if you have children, or a working spouse, or savings. Not to mention the HUGE differences in cost for the things you mention in different locations within the same country or even state. For more info and links to many studies on the topic see: http://harmful.cat-v.org/economics/minimum-wage/ http://harmful.cat-v.org/economics/minimum-wage/ And yes, I'm the same uriel as in reddit :)

jeffool 15y ago

I always wonder about this argument. Wouldn't it be more about the VALUE of the minimum wage, and not the number associated with it? I mean, the minimum wage was far higher in value in 1968. And don't some nations reevaluate the value of their minimum wage annually, adjusting for de/inflation? That seems reasonable to me. And stops the arguments over when/if to increase it. (Though of course many obviously believe we shouldn't have it, but that's a different conversation.)