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I don't know anyone who is denying that the economy sucks. The reason we make fun of these people is that they're protesting against the fact that the economy s

by hugh3 15y ago

I don't know anyone who is denying that the economy sucks. The reason we make fun of these people is that they're protesting against the fact that the economy sucks. This is much like protesting against the weather. Nobody has a magic "make the economy work again" switch that they just need to be persuaded to flip. They're silly because their world view is flawed in many ways. It's not just their ideology which is wacko, but their ontology. One of the chief problems which afflicts the left is their tendency to believe that "good intentions lead to good outcomes", which has the flipside "bad outcomes are caused by bad intentions". They therefore assume that since we're currently having bad outcomes they must have been cauesd by somebody's bad intentions, so they choose a scapegoat [I wrote spacegoat the first time, which is a much better mental image] and blame it until they're blue in the face. I feel sorry for all the workers on Wall Street who have been chosen as the scapegoat this time.

srdev 15y ago
For my part, I feel that while financial institutions were complicit, one only has to look at the savings rate of the average US household pre-2008 to realize that there were systematic problems. Its not just Wall Street tycoons that failed -- people at every level did.
scarmig 15y ago
You misread what the protest is about. It's not that the economy sucks. It's that institutions of power exist that are doing their damnedest to maintain their position of power. This has led to bad outcomes in this particular historical moment.
_delirium 15y ago
> This is much like protesting against the weather. Perhaps this is where many people disagree. I don't think the 2008-present economic crisis was a random freak event, like a hurricane, or caused by immutable laws analogous to atmospheric convection. Instead, I would guess, there are definite structural causes, which should be understood, and to the extent some of them are mutable, either fixed or mitigated (the U.S.'s particular arrangement of financial infrastructure isn't a law of nature). I do agree that there's too much focus on bad intentions. I think the problems are structural more than they are moral; it's not a matter of convincing a bunch of "greedy bankers" to be more egalitarian, but of addressing the causes of economic instability.
- gwright 15y ago
  A good start would be understanding that it is the unholy alliance of government and big business that tends to be at the heart of many problems. Government has taught big business that if they donate money to re-election campaigns, wine-and-dine legislators, and even ghostwrite legislation or regulations then the business is rewarded. Incentives like this only encourage more of the same. Pointing at businesses and saying that they are greedy for grabbing at the billions that Congress and state legislatures dangle in front of them is missing the point.

by hugh3 15y ago

srdev 15y ago

For my part, I feel that while financial institutions were complicit, one only has to look at the savings rate of the average US household pre-2008 to realize that there were systematic problems. Its not just Wall Street tycoons that failed -- people at every level did.

scarmig 15y ago

You misread what the protest is about. It's not that the economy sucks. It's that institutions of power exist that are doing their damnedest to maintain their position of power. This has led to bad outcomes in this particular historical moment.

_delirium 15y ago

> This is much like protesting against the weather. Perhaps this is where many people disagree. I don't think the 2008-present economic crisis was a random freak event, like a hurricane, or caused by immutable laws analogous to atmospheric convection. Instead, I would guess, there are definite structural causes, which should be understood, and to the extent some of them are mutable, either fixed or mitigated (the U.S.'s particular arrangement of financial infrastructure isn't a law of nature). I do agree that there's too much focus on bad intentions. I think the problems are structural more than they are moral; it's not a matter of convincing a bunch of "greedy bankers" to be more egalitarian, but of addressing the causes of economic instability.

gwright 15y ago
A good start would be understanding that it is the unholy alliance of government and big business that tends to be at the heart of many problems. Government has taught big business that if they donate money to re-election campaigns, wine-and-dine legislators, and even ghostwrite legislation or regulations then the business is rewarded. Incentives like this only encourage more of the same. Pointing at businesses and saying that they are greedy for grabbing at the billions that Congress and state legislatures dangle in front of them is missing the point.