4 ms·

I bet this is normal procedure for most companies that do business in countries where bribes are common. In Germany foreign bribes used to be even deductible.

worik 5y ago
It is arguable that the prohibition of bribes is a cultural thing. So insisting on not bribing in other cultures is some sort of "imperialism". That would make bribing foreign officials a "legitimate" business expense.
- spaetzleesser 5y ago
  Problem is that foreign entities bribing in foreign cultures is an even worse form of imperialism. Big corporations with deep pockets could totally distort the market in these countries by bribing generously instead of competing by merit. It’s bad enough that lobbying (some may call it bribing) money plays such a big role in US economic policy so let’s not make it even worse. Especially large scale bribing corrupts countries and their culture. Capitalism is only useful if there is honest competition in the market.
  - jhanschoo 5y ago
    > Big corporations with deep pockets could totally distort the market in these countries by bribing generously instead of competing by merit. As opposed to the market in these countries already being distorted due to domestic bribes? > Capitalism is only useful if there is honest competition in the market. It's therefore not clear to me how a market under such a corrupt regulatory regime is already well-served without the supply-side bribing one's way in, when the cost for an enlightened business owner to be a legitimate player is already bribery. On the flip side, with bribery, the bribery cost to do business for well capitalized foreign players is higher, so there are dynamics that work against the foreign imperialist in a corrupt regime.
- wolverine876 5y ago
  If bribes are ok, why don't the criminals openly advertise their prices and what they are doing? Bribes do economic harm to people of the country, whether we call it 'culture' or something else.
  - worik 5y ago
    > why don't the criminals openly advertise their prices and what they are doing? That is what politicians in the USA do, as I point ed out elsewhere I agree bribes are bad. But in my culture, with very low bribary and very high trust it is OK to put a solo mother out into the street with her children because she has been unable to pay inflated rents. For some countries, where bribery is accepted, that treatment of a fellow human would not be. If those countries had economic power they might pass laws that sanctioned our landlords. So we need to be careful when we defend other's economic practices. We should be aware, at least, of our own sins
    - wolverine876 5y ago
      > But in my culture, with very low bribary and very high trust it is OK to put a solo mother out into the street with her children because she has been unable to pay inflated rents. > For some countries, where bribery is accepted, that treatment of a fellow human would not be. If those countries had economic power they might pass laws that sanctioned our landlords. Where does the idea come from that countries with more bribery are more humanitarian? Usually, corruption extends to morality, IMHO, and brutal dictatorships tend to be the most corrupt.
npteljes 5y ago
This is my takeaway too. Want to do business at a country where this is normal? You either play this game, or do do business there with a serious disadvantage. In this regard, it's not that different from visiting places like this as a tourist. Where bribes are common with border guards, cops stopping you in the middle of nowhere, etc you either go there and pay the bribes, or don't visit at all.

worik 5y ago

It is arguable that the prohibition of bribes is a cultural thing. So insisting on not bribing in other cultures is some sort of "imperialism". That would make bribing foreign officials a "legitimate" business expense.

spaetzleesser 5y ago
Problem is that foreign entities bribing in foreign cultures is an even worse form of imperialism. Big corporations with deep pockets could totally distort the market in these countries by bribing generously instead of competing by merit. It’s bad enough that lobbying (some may call it bribing) money plays such a big role in US economic policy so let’s not make it even worse. Especially large scale bribing corrupts countries and their culture. Capitalism is only useful if there is honest competition in the market.
- jhanschoo 5y ago
  > Big corporations with deep pockets could totally distort the market in these countries by bribing generously instead of competing by merit. As opposed to the market in these countries already being distorted due to domestic bribes? > Capitalism is only useful if there is honest competition in the market. It's therefore not clear to me how a market under such a corrupt regulatory regime is already well-served without the supply-side bribing one's way in, when the cost for an enlightened business owner to be a legitimate player is already bribery. On the flip side, with bribery, the bribery cost to do business for well capitalized foreign players is higher, so there are dynamics that work against the foreign imperialist in a corrupt regime.
wolverine876 5y ago
If bribes are ok, why don't the criminals openly advertise their prices and what they are doing? Bribes do economic harm to people of the country, whether we call it 'culture' or something else.
- worik 5y ago
  > why don't the criminals openly advertise their prices and what they are doing? That is what politicians in the USA do, as I point ed out elsewhere I agree bribes are bad. But in my culture, with very low bribary and very high trust it is OK to put a solo mother out into the street with her children because she has been unable to pay inflated rents. For some countries, where bribery is accepted, that treatment of a fellow human would not be. If those countries had economic power they might pass laws that sanctioned our landlords. So we need to be careful when we defend other's economic practices. We should be aware, at least, of our own sins
  - wolverine876 5y ago
    > But in my culture, with very low bribary and very high trust it is OK to put a solo mother out into the street with her children because she has been unable to pay inflated rents. > For some countries, where bribery is accepted, that treatment of a fellow human would not be. If those countries had economic power they might pass laws that sanctioned our landlords. Where does the idea come from that countries with more bribery are more humanitarian? Usually, corruption extends to morality, IMHO, and brutal dictatorships tend to be the most corrupt.

npteljes 5y ago

This is my takeaway too. Want to do business at a country where this is normal? You either play this game, or do do business there with a serious disadvantage. In this regard, it's not that different from visiting places like this as a tourist. Where bribes are common with border guards, cops stopping you in the middle of nowhere, etc you either go there and pay the bribes, or don't visit at all.