3 ms·

> It was, which is why your comment starting with "As a business" was so bizarrely off-topic. What do you mean by off-topic? Businesses receive utility bills t

by rosndo 5y ago

> It was, which is why your comment starting with "As a business" was so bizarrely off-topic. What do you mean by off-topic? Businesses receive utility bills too, and might genuinely be required to keep records of those. As far as I can tell, barring some very special circumstances, individuals never need to keep such records.

justin66 5y ago
> As far as I can tell, barring some very special circumstances, individuals never need to keep such records. This is blatantly false. Unless paying taxes is a "very special circumstance." People don't want these records at hand purely for their own amusement, which seems to be the assumption you're operating under here.
- locooon 5y ago
  In what situation will an individual need to supply their utility bills to the taxman during an audit? > This is blatantly false. Unless paying taxes is a "very special circumstance." I’ve certainly never needed to pull up my utility bills while paying taxes as a private person. It really feels like you’re just coming up with stuff, utility bills aren’t normally tax deductible (unless you are a business). There’s no reason you’d ever need them for the taxman any more than your grocery story receipts.
  - justin66 5y ago
    Wow, you really created an account to make that comment? > In what situation will an individual need to supply their utility bills to the taxman during an audit? The bills would be useful if they expensed some of those payments, deducted them, or whatever. With a record number of people working from home, some portion of those expenses might be tax deductible for some people, some people might receive reimbursements from an employer, etc. (nobody said anything about an audit) > I’ve certainly never needed to pull up my utility bills while paying taxes as a private person. I think we can all agree that if you have never done this, it's unthinkable that anyone would ever do this.
    - rosndo 5y ago
      - justin66 5y ago
        You would save the records for deductions or business expenses or whatever as a bookkeeping measure - and as a tax precaution, yes - even if you were not expecting an audit. Audits are fairly unusual. (Way, way upthread jacquesm cited tax audits as a reason for these records to be physically provided, but they're a useful and common means of communication when employing a tax preparer or bookkeeper as well. And back to the original point, this is all even more likely to be true of an "old" person.) The cost of saving paper records, for an individual, is fairly close to zero, whereas it's a colossal pain in the butt to track down stuff later. Make that mistake once and you won't do it again.
        rosndo 5y ago
        > You would save the records for deductions or business expenses or whatever as a bookkeeping measure - and as a tax precaution, yes - even if you were not expecting an audit. Audits are fairly unusual I think you are just repeating original comment here. Regular people in regular situations will never need their old utility bills for tax purposes. Those choosing to e.g. run a business, pick up various extra responsibilities in doing so. In that case it’s absolutely your own responsibility to maintain good records, and you should print electronic invoices if you so desire. If you run a business and are using your utility bills as a basis for deductions, you’d have to be stupid to not safely store them (digitally or physically). Paper invoices should be opt-in, not opt-out. Very few people actually require them.
  - kube-system 5y ago
    > In what situation will an individual need to supply their utility bills to the taxman during an audit? Under IRS rules, some people who WFH can often deduct part of their home expenses, including utilities. See IRS Form 8891 line 21, labelled "Utilities"
    - rosndo 5y ago
      As far as I can tell this exclusively applies to self-employed people, i.e. someone running a business from their home.
      - kube-system 5y ago
        Post 2017 it does, only people who are 1099, so it includes many software engineers who are contractors. Before 2017, it included employees too. So, some plain-old w2 employees still have utility bills lying around subject to audit.

by rosndo 5y ago

justin66 5y ago

> As far as I can tell, barring some very special circumstances, individuals never need to keep such records. This is blatantly false. Unless paying taxes is a "very special circumstance." People don't want these records at hand purely for their own amusement, which seems to be the assumption you're operating under here.

locooon 5y ago
In what situation will an individual need to supply their utility bills to the taxman during an audit? > This is blatantly false. Unless paying taxes is a "very special circumstance." I’ve certainly never needed to pull up my utility bills while paying taxes as a private person. It really feels like you’re just coming up with stuff, utility bills aren’t normally tax deductible (unless you are a business). There’s no reason you’d ever need them for the taxman any more than your grocery story receipts.
- justin66 5y ago
  Wow, you really created an account to make that comment? > In what situation will an individual need to supply their utility bills to the taxman during an audit? The bills would be useful if they expensed some of those payments, deducted them, or whatever. With a record number of people working from home, some portion of those expenses might be tax deductible for some people, some people might receive reimbursements from an employer, etc. (nobody said anything about an audit) > I’ve certainly never needed to pull up my utility bills while paying taxes as a private person. I think we can all agree that if you have never done this, it's unthinkable that anyone would ever do this.
  - rosndo 5y ago
    - justin66 5y ago
      You would save the records for deductions or business expenses or whatever as a bookkeeping measure - and as a tax precaution, yes - even if you were not expecting an audit. Audits are fairly unusual. (Way, way upthread jacquesm cited tax audits as a reason for these records to be physically provided, but they're a useful and common means of communication when employing a tax preparer or bookkeeper as well. And back to the original point, this is all even more likely to be true of an "old" person.) The cost of saving paper records, for an individual, is fairly close to zero, whereas it's a colossal pain in the butt to track down stuff later. Make that mistake once and you won't do it again.
      - rosndo 5y ago
        > You would save the records for deductions or business expenses or whatever as a bookkeeping measure - and as a tax precaution, yes - even if you were not expecting an audit. Audits are fairly unusual I think you are just repeating original comment here. Regular people in regular situations will never need their old utility bills for tax purposes. Those choosing to e.g. run a business, pick up various extra responsibilities in doing so. In that case it’s absolutely your own responsibility to maintain good records, and you should print electronic invoices if you so desire. If you run a business and are using your utility bills as a basis for deductions, you’d have to be stupid to not safely store them (digitally or physically). Paper invoices should be opt-in, not opt-out. Very few people actually require them.
- kube-system 5y ago
  > In what situation will an individual need to supply their utility bills to the taxman during an audit? Under IRS rules, some people who WFH can often deduct part of their home expenses, including utilities. See IRS Form 8891 line 21, labelled "Utilities"
  - rosndo 5y ago
    As far as I can tell this exclusively applies to self-employed people, i.e. someone running a business from their home.
    - kube-system 5y ago
      Post 2017 it does, only people who are 1099, so it includes many software engineers who are contractors. Before 2017, it included employees too. So, some plain-old w2 employees still have utility bills lying around subject to audit.