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i know it seems unlikely now but i think we will return to the office. not 100% of the time. not everyone was doing 100% before either. but a lot of people hav

i know it seems unlikely now but i think we will return to the office. not 100% of the time. not everyone was doing 100% before either. but a lot of people have switched jobs in the remote only era. we have experienced / are experiencing how little we know these new people. how little we feel connected to them. how strange it is to not make new friends at a new job that go beyond the work-friend level. i think most people will pay the cost of going in (again, not every day) for the gain of seeing people. this will be gradual but i think it is a common sentiment that we want to work with people we can see in person

waterboigh 5y ago
> this will be gradual but i think it is a common sentiment that we want to work with people we can see in person That's been my biggest issue, is I miss the people. I miss the coffee runs, the random lunch outings... However, if I lived my ideal schedule I would work from 0600 to 1100 ITO, break for a 'siesta', then finish my work later in the afternoon evening as my schedule allows. And so my co-workers have also had their own ideals which overlap little to any such that we quickly reach a point of "no point in having in office, we overlap two hours at best." Perhaps the best model to satiate flexibility but indulge the human side of the equation, is remote-first regional-companies. One can still plan to meet with some regularity without absurd amounts of travel. At my first startup, we would meet on a roughly weekly basis for a company lunch to have those conversations easiest done face-to-face, or just hang out for an afternoon enjoying the local natural beauty (#SaltLife) - anytime the Engineering VP and I needed to meetup, we'd just figure out what day we could meet up at a colo office or coffee spot. Otherwise, remote from wherever made sense. Some days for me it was pool side, some days down by the creek, most days just in my home office. The only real down-side is that lack of a national or global talent pool, but we weren't even all that niche so it wasn't a factor for us and, I suspect, most companies which just do the same old languages on the same old platforms.
- AlwaysRock 5y ago
  I'd happily do quarterly week long company regional on sites. It's expensive for companies to do, if they do it right and cover all costs and travel for sig others/family, but its still cheaper than rent on a big office building.
  - Cd00d 5y ago
    That's actually a lot to ask of people with children or other dependents in their care. A quarterly 2-day off-site is far more digestible. Which I agree is still a great compromise in expense and f2f to an office.
    - AlwaysRock 5y ago
      Sure. I'd take 2-3 days as well. A week is pretty long for anything quarterly. But if you are only doing once a year a week is pretty reasonable.
throwxxxaway 5y ago
I feel so much better working remotely so that I don't have to talk to my colleagues in person. We are completely different people, like from different worlds. RTO is mandatory at our place. This made me happy every time I saw a rise in infections or new variant, for which I feel bad about myself.
eropple 5y ago
I started a new job during COVID. I've met my coworkers twice (two of them three times). There are a solid four people out of an org of ~40 who I unhesitatingly consider non-work friends now. "You can't make friends over the Internet" hasn't been true for decades.
- hn_version_0023 5y ago
  Indeed. How many of us have friends made through gaming over the ‘net? I’d wager 50%+
AlwaysRock 5y ago
Eh. I've had close work friends and even with my best efforts those still felt like work friends, basically not as close as my non work friendships, and the relationship suffered greatly once one of us left that job. I don't try to cultivate work friendships now. It's a great way to build up a friendship that wont exists, or will only exist to a lesser extent, in 12-24 months. I'll be nice and friendly, as always. But I'm not staying late to get beers with work folks because they are my friends. I'm going home to see my family or hangout with my actual friends. It just doesnt feel healthy to tie work and my friendships together.
somehnacct3757 5y ago
Whether workers want it or not isn't going to be the deciding factor. Nor will it be a mental health issue. Just look at their years of ignoring studies about how open offices are bad for knowledge workers. Rather, it will be purely a financial decision. It comes down to whether employers are going to sign many-year leases for a social hangout spot for their employees. As well as accept liability during future COVID outbreaks. Right now there is artificial demand from employers in favor of returning, but only the ones who already signed many-year leases. For everycorp else, an office is an unnecessary expense. They will take the money they save on rent and insurance and spend some of it on wellness perks and subsidizing home offices, and come out ahead financially. I also think the employee demand to return to the office is misplaced. We're all tired of being cooped up at home with nothing to do, but that has more to do with lockdowns than WFH. Without the lockdowns, those 2 hours you spent commuting are now time in your day to join a social club near your home, start an outdoor hobby, etc. Will WFH workers still want to return to an office once they find a new mental health balance that doesn't rely on their employer? I think no.
- spookthesunset 5y ago
  > As well as accept liability during future COVID outbreaks. Yet somehow grocery store workers managed to work in their "office" and survive the last two years. Why do all these software developer people think they are so special? It bothers me how many people use COVID as a means to push their personal agendas.
  - somehnacct3757 5y ago
    You are the person introducing politics into a conversation that had none. And your anti tech worker sentiment out of left field on a tech worker forum is unnecessarily antagonistic. Maybe you're the one with a personal agenda. Future COVID waves are going to cost companies with offices much more money than fully remote companies. Quite literally a liability. I have no idea what this has to do with grocery stores.
- tick_tock_tick 5y ago
  > Rather, it will be purely a financial decision. I agree and think this will be the key. Most will return to the office and the companies that don't will be out-competed forcing them to close or return. Of course this will take years to fully shake out.

waterboigh 5y ago

> this will be gradual but i think it is a common sentiment that we want to work with people we can see in person That's been my biggest issue, is I miss the people. I miss the coffee runs, the random lunch outings... However, if I lived my ideal schedule I would work from 0600 to 1100 ITO, break for a 'siesta', then finish my work later in the afternoon evening as my schedule allows. And so my co-workers have also had their own ideals which overlap little to any such that we quickly reach a point of "no point in having in office, we overlap two hours at best." Perhaps the best model to satiate flexibility but indulge the human side of the equation, is remote-first regional-companies. One can still plan to meet with some regularity without absurd amounts of travel. At my first startup, we would meet on a roughly weekly basis for a company lunch to have those conversations easiest done face-to-face, or just hang out for an afternoon enjoying the local natural beauty (#SaltLife) - anytime the Engineering VP and I needed to meetup, we'd just figure out what day we could meet up at a colo office or coffee spot. Otherwise, remote from wherever made sense. Some days for me it was pool side, some days down by the creek, most days just in my home office. The only real down-side is that lack of a national or global talent pool, but we weren't even all that niche so it wasn't a factor for us and, I suspect, most companies which just do the same old languages on the same old platforms.

AlwaysRock 5y ago
I'd happily do quarterly week long company regional on sites. It's expensive for companies to do, if they do it right and cover all costs and travel for sig others/family, but its still cheaper than rent on a big office building.
- Cd00d 5y ago
  That's actually a lot to ask of people with children or other dependents in their care. A quarterly 2-day off-site is far more digestible. Which I agree is still a great compromise in expense and f2f to an office.
  - AlwaysRock 5y ago
    Sure. I'd take 2-3 days as well. A week is pretty long for anything quarterly. But if you are only doing once a year a week is pretty reasonable.

throwxxxaway 5y ago

I feel so much better working remotely so that I don't have to talk to my colleagues in person. We are completely different people, like from different worlds. RTO is mandatory at our place. This made me happy every time I saw a rise in infections or new variant, for which I feel bad about myself.

eropple 5y ago

I started a new job during COVID. I've met my coworkers twice (two of them three times). There are a solid four people out of an org of ~40 who I unhesitatingly consider non-work friends now. "You can't make friends over the Internet" hasn't been true for decades.

hn_version_0023 5y ago
Indeed. How many of us have friends made through gaming over the ‘net? I’d wager 50%+

AlwaysRock 5y ago

Eh. I've had close work friends and even with my best efforts those still felt like work friends, basically not as close as my non work friendships, and the relationship suffered greatly once one of us left that job. I don't try to cultivate work friendships now. It's a great way to build up a friendship that wont exists, or will only exist to a lesser extent, in 12-24 months. I'll be nice and friendly, as always. But I'm not staying late to get beers with work folks because they are my friends. I'm going home to see my family or hangout with my actual friends. It just doesnt feel healthy to tie work and my friendships together.

somehnacct3757 5y ago

Whether workers want it or not isn't going to be the deciding factor. Nor will it be a mental health issue. Just look at their years of ignoring studies about how open offices are bad for knowledge workers. Rather, it will be purely a financial decision. It comes down to whether employers are going to sign many-year leases for a social hangout spot for their employees. As well as accept liability during future COVID outbreaks. Right now there is artificial demand from employers in favor of returning, but only the ones who already signed many-year leases. For everycorp else, an office is an unnecessary expense. They will take the money they save on rent and insurance and spend some of it on wellness perks and subsidizing home offices, and come out ahead financially. I also think the employee demand to return to the office is misplaced. We're all tired of being cooped up at home with nothing to do, but that has more to do with lockdowns than WFH. Without the lockdowns, those 2 hours you spent commuting are now time in your day to join a social club near your home, start an outdoor hobby, etc. Will WFH workers still want to return to an office once they find a new mental health balance that doesn't rely on their employer? I think no.

spookthesunset 5y ago
> As well as accept liability during future COVID outbreaks. Yet somehow grocery store workers managed to work in their "office" and survive the last two years. Why do all these software developer people think they are so special? It bothers me how many people use COVID as a means to push their personal agendas.
- somehnacct3757 5y ago
  You are the person introducing politics into a conversation that had none. And your anti tech worker sentiment out of left field on a tech worker forum is unnecessarily antagonistic. Maybe you're the one with a personal agenda. Future COVID waves are going to cost companies with offices much more money than fully remote companies. Quite literally a liability. I have no idea what this has to do with grocery stores.
tick_tock_tick 5y ago
> Rather, it will be purely a financial decision. I agree and think this will be the key. Most will return to the office and the companies that don't will be out-competed forcing them to close or return. Of course this will take years to fully shake out.