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> it hurts to see that the digital world has dehumanized us to the point that loyalty has lost all of its worth sigh, this has almost nothing to do with the "d

> it hurts to see that the digital world has dehumanized us to the point that loyalty has lost all of its worth sigh, this has almost nothing to do with the "digital" world as much as it does with the fact that corporations never cared. If they could have saved a single cent by moving to "tellers"/ATMS that were mechanical in nature, 51 years ago when he first opened his account, they would have. The corporations were never "loyal".

akhmatova 5y ago
Sigh, it does have to do with the digital world actually (in that everyone now seems to think that everyone is on their platform. Further, it has been been observed that digital systems promote cognitive fatigue and empathy depletion across the board). There's no need to be so dismissive. Sigh.
- 52-6F-62 5y ago
  Indeed. There are many things computers are amazing at doing (that's why I find them fascinating and enjoy working on them from time to time)—but human empathy isn't one of them.
  - joshstrange 5y ago
    Computers didn't choose to close down a branch or limit its hours, humans did.
    - akhmatova 5y ago
      But the computers tricked the humans into thinking "you can just do it all online". My favorite example of this being restaurants that, when you ask for a menu, give you a QR code (with no explanation of course).
    - 52-6F-62 5y ago
      That’s not really a straight comparison here. Computers are not feeling machines, they’re calculators. Humans are greatly varied, contradictory creatures with a seemingly bottomless internal mode. You will get everything under the sun from out of humans. You will get discrete numerical calculations of out a computer.
pif 5y ago
> corporations never cared This is a pet peeve of mine: I understand it can be liberating to blame those greed corporations for giving profit the top priority, but the truth is that corporations never cared because consumers never cared. We, the consumers, have the nasty habit of looking for cheap before anything else. Whoever tries to sell quality, or to offer his hard-working employees a respectable wage, is painfully bitten by customers moving elsewhere. The race to the bottom is a bit*h.
- belval 5y ago
  People don't like that explanation, it's hard to look in the mirror and accept that you are part of the problem. It's like printed high-quality investigation journalism. We all decry that it's on its way out but the vast majority of us won't consider paying a 300$/year subscription even if most of the HN reader base could absolutely afford it. We just don't want to pay for stuff. It's the same thing (to a lesser extent) with stocks and investment. I own a bunch of REIT (real-estate trust fund) because they give a great stable return that loosely follow inflation. A few months ago, my landlord increased my rent by 5% I was angry, felt like it was too much etc... but my landlord is very much the result of my investments pushing for inflation-matching dividends. If they don't meet the market expectation they'll just drop in value. Anyway long story short we are part of the problem.
- Femtio 5y ago
  We also live in a totally different time. You were never able to just research how credit works. You needed the bank teller for this. You were not able to compare prices and service before. It was critical for you as a necessity that you trusted them. For consumers our time is much better than it was before. And yes due to global optimization it's just something bound to happen. Instead of complaining that we have much better options and are more enabled to do things out way we should start to think how we want to shape the future. I would love to talk about how we can further enhance the life's of everyone and how we live together than discussed if we still need to support checks.
- AlwaysRock 5y ago
  I look for competitive rates based on services offered. A shitty motel is cheaper than an airbnb but I use Airbnb because typically they offer nicer houses. I use a credit card that has a high annual fee because the rewards make it more than worth it. I buy the nicer toilet paper because it feels better than the shit kind. Consumers are not valuing cheap over everything else. If I'm unaware of why a $100 bike lock is better than the $20 bike lock and I buy the $20 bike lock that isnt me being cheap. That is the $100 bike lock manufacturers failure to convey the value of their product compared to other, more affordable, options. All of this is wrapped up in another issue as well. Wealth. I'm at a point financially where I can pick the better and more expensive option. At many times in the past I bought the shit toilet paper because it was half the price and that meant I could stretch my paycheck a bit further. I'm not going to get into how that could be alleviated but consumers care when they have the financial comfortability to care and when they are aware why they should care.
lucretian 5y ago
perhaps, but those things are related. the necessity of live human interaction must have created regular feedback loops that arrested extreme user-unfriendly cost saving measures. the digital world reduces or outright removes those frictions.
- MandieD 5y ago
  This is an extremely interesting idea that pins down a lot of stuff that had been rattling around loose in my head - have you written more about it?
vorpalhex 5y ago
I find it so obnoxious when people put sighs in comments as if they are talking down to a dumb child that my instinct is to immediately jump to insulting them. The worst part is that the sigh always precedes some generic hot take with no evidence or actual argument, just some copypasta we've seen on twitter before. If you think the response to someone is stupidly obvious, then don't say it. Keep it to yourself.

akhmatova 5y ago

Sigh, it does have to do with the digital world actually (in that everyone now seems to think that everyone is on their platform. Further, it has been been observed that digital systems promote cognitive fatigue and empathy depletion across the board). There's no need to be so dismissive. Sigh.

52-6F-62 5y ago
Indeed. There are many things computers are amazing at doing (that's why I find them fascinating and enjoy working on them from time to time)—but human empathy isn't one of them.
- joshstrange 5y ago
  Computers didn't choose to close down a branch or limit its hours, humans did.
  - akhmatova 5y ago
    But the computers tricked the humans into thinking "you can just do it all online". My favorite example of this being restaurants that, when you ask for a menu, give you a QR code (with no explanation of course).
  - 52-6F-62 5y ago
    That’s not really a straight comparison here. Computers are not feeling machines, they’re calculators. Humans are greatly varied, contradictory creatures with a seemingly bottomless internal mode. You will get everything under the sun from out of humans. You will get discrete numerical calculations of out a computer.

pif 5y ago

> corporations never cared This is a pet peeve of mine: I understand it can be liberating to blame those greed corporations for giving profit the top priority, but the truth is that corporations never cared because consumers never cared. We, the consumers, have the nasty habit of looking for cheap before anything else. Whoever tries to sell quality, or to offer his hard-working employees a respectable wage, is painfully bitten by customers moving elsewhere. The race to the bottom is a bit*h.

belval 5y ago
People don't like that explanation, it's hard to look in the mirror and accept that you are part of the problem. It's like printed high-quality investigation journalism. We all decry that it's on its way out but the vast majority of us won't consider paying a 300$/year subscription even if most of the HN reader base could absolutely afford it. We just don't want to pay for stuff. It's the same thing (to a lesser extent) with stocks and investment. I own a bunch of REIT (real-estate trust fund) because they give a great stable return that loosely follow inflation. A few months ago, my landlord increased my rent by 5% I was angry, felt like it was too much etc... but my landlord is very much the result of my investments pushing for inflation-matching dividends. If they don't meet the market expectation they'll just drop in value. Anyway long story short we are part of the problem.
Femtio 5y ago
We also live in a totally different time. You were never able to just research how credit works. You needed the bank teller for this. You were not able to compare prices and service before. It was critical for you as a necessity that you trusted them. For consumers our time is much better than it was before. And yes due to global optimization it's just something bound to happen. Instead of complaining that we have much better options and are more enabled to do things out way we should start to think how we want to shape the future. I would love to talk about how we can further enhance the life's of everyone and how we live together than discussed if we still need to support checks.
AlwaysRock 5y ago
I look for competitive rates based on services offered. A shitty motel is cheaper than an airbnb but I use Airbnb because typically they offer nicer houses. I use a credit card that has a high annual fee because the rewards make it more than worth it. I buy the nicer toilet paper because it feels better than the shit kind. Consumers are not valuing cheap over everything else. If I'm unaware of why a $100 bike lock is better than the $20 bike lock and I buy the $20 bike lock that isnt me being cheap. That is the $100 bike lock manufacturers failure to convey the value of their product compared to other, more affordable, options. All of this is wrapped up in another issue as well. Wealth. I'm at a point financially where I can pick the better and more expensive option. At many times in the past I bought the shit toilet paper because it was half the price and that meant I could stretch my paycheck a bit further. I'm not going to get into how that could be alleviated but consumers care when they have the financial comfortability to care and when they are aware why they should care.

lucretian 5y ago

perhaps, but those things are related. the necessity of live human interaction must have created regular feedback loops that arrested extreme user-unfriendly cost saving measures. the digital world reduces or outright removes those frictions.

MandieD 5y ago
This is an extremely interesting idea that pins down a lot of stuff that had been rattling around loose in my head - have you written more about it?

vorpalhex 5y ago

I find it so obnoxious when people put sighs in comments as if they are talking down to a dumb child that my instinct is to immediately jump to insulting them. The worst part is that the sigh always precedes some generic hot take with no evidence or actual argument, just some copypasta we've seen on twitter before. If you think the response to someone is stupidly obvious, then don't say it. Keep it to yourself.