4 ms·

Does not make any sense at all. You jump from "sun is overhead in 12 hours" (12 AM) to "sun is overhead in 1 hour" (1 AM) when you follow that logic. The 12 h

Does not make any sense at all. You jump from "sun is overhead in 12 hours" (12 AM) to "sun is overhead in 1 hour" (1 AM) when you follow that logic. The 12 hour-system is broken and should go away.

Koshkin 5y ago
Would you want the clock face to be changed to show 24 hours instead of 12? (What would be the number at the top then - 0 or 24?)
- hnbad 5y ago
  Easy alternative: start the clock at zero like a rational individual would. 12 only makes sense if you see it as the end and go backwards from there. It's a bit like the confusing mess of how year numbers work where traditionally there is no year zero (because the year one is 1 AD, i.e. the first year "of our Lord", i.e. year numbers are actually ordinal even though everyone treats them as nominal). Besides, at this point 90% of the time formats people look at in their daily lives are probably digital (since analog faces are only relevant to actual clocks and even most clocks are likely digital simply because so many electronic devices come with digital clocks) and even analog clocks don't always have numbers on them (or use fanciful alternatives like Roman numerals). The people who prefer analog clocks are clearly just sticking with them out of personal preference or aesthetics anyway.
- majewsky 5y ago
  You're making it sound as though a 24-hour format is a wild new idea when it's actually in common use across 100+ countries. Timestamps go from 00:00:00 to 23:59:59 without breaks in continuity. The clock still has 12 hours with the 12 on top, but it is commonly understood that "12" on the clock face can refer to either 0 or 12, just like how "5" can refer to either 5 or 17.
  - softwarebeware 5y ago
    What’s the difference? In both the 12 and 24 hour system the clock rolls over at the end of the period, and the period starts.
    - seba_dos1 5y ago
      The difference is that in 12-hour system, the rollover point is ambiguous and non-intuitive (11 PM -> 12 AM -> 1 AM), while in 24-hour one it's perfectly clear and obvious.
      - Koshkin 5y ago
        I find the 12-hour system as intuitive as the 24-hour system. It is centered around noon, where "AM" means time on the same day before noon, and "PM" means time after, on the same day. Nothing wrong with that.
        seba_dos1 5y ago
        That's only because you're used to it and have additional context already. The day starts at 12 and goes to 1 an hour later, so notion of "same day" is absolutely ambiguous.
      - softwarebeware 5y ago
        The 24 hour system: 23 -> 0 -> 1 How is that different than 11 -> 12 > 1 ? Yes I get it that in normal integers, 1 is not after 12, but neither is 0 after 23.
        seba_dos1 5y ago
        You're missing the most important bit - the one this whole thread is about. The 24 hour system: 23 -> 0 -> 1 The 12 hour system: 11 PM -> 12 AM -> 1 AM In the 24 hour system, there's a single point where the new day starts, and it's the transition from 23 to 0. In the 12 hour system, where does the new day start? Numbers tell you it's 12 -> 1, but it's actually 11 -> 12. You have no way to figure the answer to OP's question out without additional context. As others already pointed out in this thread, a 12 hour system using 0 instead of 12 would make it much more intuitive, although now you'd end up with either using 0:00 PM for noon, which feels strange, or using 0:00 AM and 12:00 PM, which is inconsistent. The 24 hour system has no such issues and has a massive advantage over creating new systems - people are already familiar with it.
  - Koshkin 5y ago
    To clarify, I was responding to the "should go away" part.
mauvehaus 5y ago
Uh, doesn't 1:00 AM mean the sun is overhead in 11 hours?

Does not make any sense at all. You jump from "sun is overhead in 12 hours" (12 AM) to "sun is overhead in 1 hour" (1 AM) when you follow that logic. The 12 hour-system is broken and should go away.

Koshkin 5y ago

Would you want the clock face to be changed to show 24 hours instead of 12? (What would be the number at the top then - 0 or 24?)

hnbad 5y ago
Easy alternative: start the clock at zero like a rational individual would. 12 only makes sense if you see it as the end and go backwards from there. It's a bit like the confusing mess of how year numbers work where traditionally there is no year zero (because the year one is 1 AD, i.e. the first year "of our Lord", i.e. year numbers are actually ordinal even though everyone treats them as nominal). Besides, at this point 90% of the time formats people look at in their daily lives are probably digital (since analog faces are only relevant to actual clocks and even most clocks are likely digital simply because so many electronic devices come with digital clocks) and even analog clocks don't always have numbers on them (or use fanciful alternatives like Roman numerals). The people who prefer analog clocks are clearly just sticking with them out of personal preference or aesthetics anyway.
majewsky 5y ago
You're making it sound as though a 24-hour format is a wild new idea when it's actually in common use across 100+ countries. Timestamps go from 00:00:00 to 23:59:59 without breaks in continuity. The clock still has 12 hours with the 12 on top, but it is commonly understood that "12" on the clock face can refer to either 0 or 12, just like how "5" can refer to either 5 or 17.
- softwarebeware 5y ago
  What’s the difference? In both the 12 and 24 hour system the clock rolls over at the end of the period, and the period starts.
  - seba_dos1 5y ago
    The difference is that in 12-hour system, the rollover point is ambiguous and non-intuitive (11 PM -> 12 AM -> 1 AM), while in 24-hour one it's perfectly clear and obvious.
    - Koshkin 5y ago
      I find the 12-hour system as intuitive as the 24-hour system. It is centered around noon, where "AM" means time on the same day before noon, and "PM" means time after, on the same day. Nothing wrong with that.
      - seba_dos1 5y ago
        That's only because you're used to it and have additional context already. The day starts at 12 and goes to 1 an hour later, so notion of "same day" is absolutely ambiguous.
    - softwarebeware 5y ago
      The 24 hour system: 23 -> 0 -> 1 How is that different than 11 -> 12 > 1 ? Yes I get it that in normal integers, 1 is not after 12, but neither is 0 after 23.
      - seba_dos1 5y ago
        You're missing the most important bit - the one this whole thread is about. The 24 hour system: 23 -> 0 -> 1 The 12 hour system: 11 PM -> 12 AM -> 1 AM In the 24 hour system, there's a single point where the new day starts, and it's the transition from 23 to 0. In the 12 hour system, where does the new day start? Numbers tell you it's 12 -> 1, but it's actually 11 -> 12. You have no way to figure the answer to OP's question out without additional context. As others already pointed out in this thread, a 12 hour system using 0 instead of 12 would make it much more intuitive, although now you'd end up with either using 0:00 PM for noon, which feels strange, or using 0:00 AM and 12:00 PM, which is inconsistent. The 24 hour system has no such issues and has a massive advantage over creating new systems - people are already familiar with it.
- Koshkin 5y ago
  To clarify, I was responding to the "should go away" part.

mauvehaus 5y ago

Uh, doesn't 1:00 AM mean the sun is overhead in 11 hours?