5 ms·

.. iPhone Upgrade Program is already basically this? Guess they'll just be formalizing the non-ownership :)

by shmoe 5y ago

ectospheno 5y ago
So leasing a car is always bad?
- saveferris 5y ago
  Obvisously no...but if the only way to use an iphone is to rent it from Apple then yes that is bad. I have no actual data but I'd be willing to bet a lot of actual money that of the universe of people (not businesses) that lease cars the majority are making bad financial decisions. Of course, this depends on your definition of bad.
  - jqpabc123 5y ago
    Lots of businesses prefer to lease instead of buy because it simplifies the accounting --- even though they know it costs more. A lease is a straightforward business expense that the tax authorities find really hard to question. But using autos as an example, purchasing instead of leasing can open up a can of worms that can take years to get resolved. You paid too much when you bought from your cousin's auto dealership. Your depreciation method wasn't valid. Your liquidation price was too low when you sold the old used vehicles back to your cousin's dealership. Lots of potential questions that can consume lots of time and money to get resolved.
  - HWR_14 5y ago
    I know one person who I recommended leasing to. They wanted to upgrade their car every 2 years. I think that's a bad financial decision, but you may as well lease then.
- shmoe 5y ago
  Not sure where you’re coming from. I use the IUP :) but in most personal cases leasing is usually the worse option financially.
- rdtwo 5y ago
  95% of the time probably. The other 5% you play the game and come out ahead
  - shmoe 5y ago
    Made a nice down payment at the end of a lease that was super upside down in my favor in 2013. The only thing that sucked was I had to actually buy it and re-title it as the lease company was quoting a different (much, much higher) buyout value to the dealer I was trying to trade it into. Sleazy stuff.
- jqpabc123 5y ago
  From a cost perspective, yes it usually is. Risks are involved for the leasor and the associated costs have to be socialized and passed on to the leasees. For example with a phone --- what happens if a person loses their iPhone and just stops paying and buys a cheap Android phone instead? How will Apple maintain their exorbitant profit margin on hardware if there are too many of these cases?
  - shmoe 5y ago
    Are you saying a lessor has no recourse?
    - jqpabc123 5y ago
      In some cases, yes --- the leasor may have no recourse that makes any economic sense. The cost of legal "recourse" may exceed the value of the item. What happens if the leasee declares bankruptcy --- or if he dies? For a variety of reasons, a certain percentages of leases will not work out as expected. Apple's most sensible "recourse" may be to charge everyone extra to cover the cost.

.. iPhone Upgrade Program is already basically this? Guess they'll just be formalizing the non-ownership :)

by shmoe 5y ago

.. iPhone Upgrade Program is already basically this? Guess they'll just be formalizing the non-ownership :)

ectospheno 5y ago

So leasing a car is always bad?

saveferris 5y ago
Obvisously no...but if the only way to use an iphone is to rent it from Apple then yes that is bad. I have no actual data but I'd be willing to bet a lot of actual money that of the universe of people (not businesses) that lease cars the majority are making bad financial decisions. Of course, this depends on your definition of bad.
- jqpabc123 5y ago
  Lots of businesses prefer to lease instead of buy because it simplifies the accounting --- even though they know it costs more. A lease is a straightforward business expense that the tax authorities find really hard to question. But using autos as an example, purchasing instead of leasing can open up a can of worms that can take years to get resolved. You paid too much when you bought from your cousin's auto dealership. Your depreciation method wasn't valid. Your liquidation price was too low when you sold the old used vehicles back to your cousin's dealership. Lots of potential questions that can consume lots of time and money to get resolved.
- HWR_14 5y ago
  I know one person who I recommended leasing to. They wanted to upgrade their car every 2 years. I think that's a bad financial decision, but you may as well lease then.
shmoe 5y ago
Not sure where you’re coming from. I use the IUP :) but in most personal cases leasing is usually the worse option financially.
rdtwo 5y ago
95% of the time probably. The other 5% you play the game and come out ahead
- shmoe 5y ago
  Made a nice down payment at the end of a lease that was super upside down in my favor in 2013. The only thing that sucked was I had to actually buy it and re-title it as the lease company was quoting a different (much, much higher) buyout value to the dealer I was trying to trade it into. Sleazy stuff.
jqpabc123 5y ago
From a cost perspective, yes it usually is. Risks are involved for the leasor and the associated costs have to be socialized and passed on to the leasees. For example with a phone --- what happens if a person loses their iPhone and just stops paying and buys a cheap Android phone instead? How will Apple maintain their exorbitant profit margin on hardware if there are too many of these cases?
- shmoe 5y ago
  Are you saying a lessor has no recourse?
  - jqpabc123 5y ago
    In some cases, yes --- the leasor may have no recourse that makes any economic sense. The cost of legal "recourse" may exceed the value of the item. What happens if the leasee declares bankruptcy --- or if he dies? For a variety of reasons, a certain percentages of leases will not work out as expected. Apple's most sensible "recourse" may be to charge everyone extra to cover the cost.