5 ms·

> It's so easy to destroy a sector when you have nothing to lose. The EU is choosing to favor acting on behalf of their people, rather than some sector. If tha

> It's so easy to destroy a sector when you have nothing to lose. The EU is choosing to favor acting on behalf of their people, rather than some sector. If that sector can't make money in ways that are not immoral with regards to the people, so be it. For example: Why shouldn't a 30%-fee walled garden be destroyed?

naoqj 5y ago
Because it's their corporation and they can do whatever they want with it, and because it's far from a monopoly since there are alternatives.
- Hamcha 5y ago
  The scope at which those alternatives exist are different than where the monopoly is established. Ie. The App Store has a monopoly on iOS, but iOS does not have a monopoly in the mobile space. This is like saying a state-mandated ISP/Gas company wouldn't be a monopoly since you can just move to another country. You might wanna push the argument that nobody is forcing you to use iOS, but I think the problem runs deeper. In many fields and even just everyday life, you are now required to run a modern phone OS (eg. the option for not having the official COVID green pass app here in Italy is to find an authorized place that will print you a green pass on paper, and it's hard to find one, let alone schedule everything and get there without a pre-existing pass) and we're barely lucky that Google is playing by laxer rules than Apple is. If not punishing existing bad actors, these rules are a nice framework to prevent them for taking over in the future.
  - Rayhem 5y ago
    > the option for not having the official COVID green pass app here in Italy is to find an authorized place that will print you a green pass on paper, and it's hard to find one, let alone schedule everything and get there without a pre-existing pass Apple's pseudomonopoly does not strike me as the root cause issue here, developing processes and using tech to solve a people problem does.
    - Hamcha 5y ago
      When the public administration does things with pen and paper, it's blamed for being ancient and "should get with the times". Now they are getting on with the times, but the times are ones ruled by giant American companies with no regulation. Also, it's the country's duty to protect citizens from themselves using laws and regulations. For an example of what kind of "far west" digital tech is living right now, I point you back to before TV was regulated as heavily as today, where companies used cartoons to advertise smoking cigarettes to children (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAExoSozc2c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAExoSozc2c).
- ckastner 5y ago
  > Because it's their corporation and they can do whatever they want with it No, they can't do whatever they want with it. Consumer protection laws are an obvious example for how corporate interests can be limited. > because it's far from a monopoly since there are alternatives. It's a duopoly. iOS and Android together represent about 98% of mobile devices.
- madeofpalk 5y ago
  > Because it's their corporation and they can do whatever they want with it That is not true. there are many things corporations cannot do even if they want to. There's lots of different regulations that impose restrictions and obligations on companies against "what they want". So now it's just defining where that line is, which is what law-making is.
robertlagrant 5y ago
30% fees are not immoral. You may not like them, but that's very far from the same thing. A moral question would be "how much should governments control voluntary interactions between customers, platforms and products?" The immoral answer might well be "As much as it will help them gain short-term votes", not the moral one.
- ckastner 5y ago
  I didn't say 30% fees are immoral, I said 30% fee walled gardens are immoral. Especially when you make it all but impossible for third parties to operate outside of that walled garden.
  - ericmay 5y ago
    Yea but you except and promote them in other areas of your life. Even countries are walled gardens. I don’t think third parties really add value either. It’s just going to result in a bunch of spam and scams, with us losing out on privacy features and convenience.
    - TheCoelacanth 5y ago
      Countries are walled gardens. The only thing stopping them from being immoral is democracy and respect for individual rights, neither of which exists in tech giants' walled gardens.
    - arunkant 5y ago
      Don't use third parties then. Problem solved!!
      - ericmay 5y ago
        Don't use an iPhone then. Problem solved!!
        dane-pgp 5y ago
postingawayonhn 5y ago
I don't feel like I need protecting by the EU. Overall I'm very happy with the products produced by the US tech sector.
- bobajeff 5y ago
  As someone in the US I wish this sort of thing happened here and sooner. Maybe we wouldn't be stuck with Windows and Office if MS had been forced to interoperate. Free market isn't really free if you have no competition due to network effects and lock-in.
- Mindwipe 5y ago
  > I don't feel like I need protecting by the EU. Overall I'm very happy with the products produced by the US tech sector. I do. Apple repeatedly discriminates against sexual minorities in the App Store, and it's appropriate for a government to step in and stop that.

naoqj 5y ago

Because it's their corporation and they can do whatever they want with it, and because it's far from a monopoly since there are alternatives.

Hamcha 5y ago
The scope at which those alternatives exist are different than where the monopoly is established. Ie. The App Store has a monopoly on iOS, but iOS does not have a monopoly in the mobile space. This is like saying a state-mandated ISP/Gas company wouldn't be a monopoly since you can just move to another country. You might wanna push the argument that nobody is forcing you to use iOS, but I think the problem runs deeper. In many fields and even just everyday life, you are now required to run a modern phone OS (eg. the option for not having the official COVID green pass app here in Italy is to find an authorized place that will print you a green pass on paper, and it's hard to find one, let alone schedule everything and get there without a pre-existing pass) and we're barely lucky that Google is playing by laxer rules than Apple is. If not punishing existing bad actors, these rules are a nice framework to prevent them for taking over in the future.
- Rayhem 5y ago
  > the option for not having the official COVID green pass app here in Italy is to find an authorized place that will print you a green pass on paper, and it's hard to find one, let alone schedule everything and get there without a pre-existing pass Apple's pseudomonopoly does not strike me as the root cause issue here, developing processes and using tech to solve a people problem does.
  - Hamcha 5y ago
    When the public administration does things with pen and paper, it's blamed for being ancient and "should get with the times". Now they are getting on with the times, but the times are ones ruled by giant American companies with no regulation. Also, it's the country's duty to protect citizens from themselves using laws and regulations. For an example of what kind of "far west" digital tech is living right now, I point you back to before TV was regulated as heavily as today, where companies used cartoons to advertise smoking cigarettes to children (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAExoSozc2c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAExoSozc2c).
ckastner 5y ago
> Because it's their corporation and they can do whatever they want with it No, they can't do whatever they want with it. Consumer protection laws are an obvious example for how corporate interests can be limited. > because it's far from a monopoly since there are alternatives. It's a duopoly. iOS and Android together represent about 98% of mobile devices.
madeofpalk 5y ago
> Because it's their corporation and they can do whatever they want with it That is not true. there are many things corporations cannot do even if they want to. There's lots of different regulations that impose restrictions and obligations on companies against "what they want". So now it's just defining where that line is, which is what law-making is.

robertlagrant 5y ago

30% fees are not immoral. You may not like them, but that's very far from the same thing. A moral question would be "how much should governments control voluntary interactions between customers, platforms and products?" The immoral answer might well be "As much as it will help them gain short-term votes", not the moral one.

ckastner 5y ago
I didn't say 30% fees are immoral, I said 30% fee walled gardens are immoral. Especially when you make it all but impossible for third parties to operate outside of that walled garden.
- ericmay 5y ago
  Yea but you except and promote them in other areas of your life. Even countries are walled gardens. I don’t think third parties really add value either. It’s just going to result in a bunch of spam and scams, with us losing out on privacy features and convenience.
  - TheCoelacanth 5y ago
    Countries are walled gardens. The only thing stopping them from being immoral is democracy and respect for individual rights, neither of which exists in tech giants' walled gardens.
  - arunkant 5y ago
    Don't use third parties then. Problem solved!!
    - ericmay 5y ago
      Don't use an iPhone then. Problem solved!!
      - dane-pgp 5y ago

postingawayonhn 5y ago

I don't feel like I need protecting by the EU. Overall I'm very happy with the products produced by the US tech sector.

bobajeff 5y ago
As someone in the US I wish this sort of thing happened here and sooner. Maybe we wouldn't be stuck with Windows and Office if MS had been forced to interoperate. Free market isn't really free if you have no competition due to network effects and lock-in.
Mindwipe 5y ago
> I don't feel like I need protecting by the EU. Overall I'm very happy with the products produced by the US tech sector. I do. Apple repeatedly discriminates against sexual minorities in the App Store, and it's appropriate for a government to step in and stop that.