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Can you recommend a cooking book with 100% authentic Italian dishes? All the recipes I find online (especially from US sources) always like to add their own spi

by mhitza 5y ago

Can you recommend a cooking book with 100% authentic Italian dishes? All the recipes I find online (especially from US sources) always like to add their own spin on a recipe. I make lasagna using bechamel sauce as well, but you'll also find videos with chefs that add mozarella (or other cheeses) to their bechamel sauce. So a traditional recipe can be sabotaged at every stage of the process!

martopix 5y ago
can't say for a cookbook, but try https://www.giallozafferano.com/ https://www.giallozafferano.com/. Giallozafferano has essentially taken over all other italian websites for recipes, because it's clear, with pictures, and has EVERY recipe you can dream of. It also has an English language version as you can see. This said, Italians sometimes criticize it anyway, because it's not always perfectly proper, and because monopoly is never good. But Italians would criticize anything except their grandmothers when it comes to cooking, so I recommend you try it. It's generally a sufficiently good reference benchmark even for Italians and is complete.
- cycomanic 5y ago
  Thank you so much! Finding good recipes online has become such a disaster because of all the blog recipe spam, especially when looking for international dishes in English where even the decent sites have very "americanized" versions of the dish.
  - martopix 5y ago
    I feel you, as a lover of Asian cuisine who certainly cannot google in Thai or Chinese.
    - brimble 5y ago
      Find dish on Wikipedia. It'll have the native name somewhere on the page, probably, or else you can switch to a version of the page in the correct language. Put dish name (and maybe the translated word for "recipe" or "food") in search engine. Find a page that looks like it has what you want. Hit it with Google Translate.
saysjonathan 5y ago
I’m not Italian but I have two favorite reference books: The Silver Spoon[0] and American Sfoglino[1] 0: https://www.phaidon.com/store/food-cook/the-silver-spoon-9780714862569/ https://www.phaidon.com/store/food-cook/the-silver-spoon-978... 1: https://evanfunke.com/orderamericansfoglino https://evanfunke.com/orderamericansfoglino
wyldfire 5y ago
I'd be willing to try a version with bechamel but the ricotta provides a signature distinctive taste. I suppose without it, it would taste pretty different. So, yeah, like the sibling comment says - this dish has evolved while retaining its old name. Much like some loanwords which take on new connotations.
- martopix 5y ago
  I would not use the word "evolve", because in Italy it has not "evolved". There has been made an American version, which would have been best if it were called with a different name, but I guess I can't have everything...
  - iak8god 5y ago
    Wikipedia disagrees with you that there is such a thing as the one true "Italian" version of this dish: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lasagne#Local_variations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lasagne#Local_variations
- rurban 5y ago
  I would rather replace "evolved" with "degraded", or better butchered or destroyed. you can generally put all British, German or US cooking "evolvements" put into this category. thankfully the recent "fusion" cooking doesn't involve anything related to these evolvements, only the good asian and central american kitchens.
apawloski 5y ago
The authority in the English language is Marcella Hazan. Her "Essentials of Classic Italian Cooking" is probably the most comprehensive if you check out only one.
- mhitza 5y ago
  Just hit up the first amazon result to check out the book reviews, and seems like the recipes aren't traditional. Thanks for the suggestion however. Snippet of the review > As an example, I made the carbonara in this book which calls for (among other ingredients) ... "4 cloves of garlic" & "1/4 cup dry white wine" & "2 Large Eggs". > Upon further research, an authentic Italian carbonara has no garlic, no white wine and only the yolks of eggs. > I have found several recipes in this book already which are not true to the original recipes. Granted, this may not worry some people, but please bare in mind that if you are looking for true authentic Italian recipes ... look elsewhere. This book will not give it to you.
  - martopix 5y ago
    Gosh, garlic and wine, what the hell... as for whole eggs, this is allowed, some people do that :)
letouj 5y ago
You can't really go wrong with Marcella Hazan's books. She was an evangelist for traditional Italian recipes and methods in the US starting in the 1970s much the same way Julia Child was with French cuisine. Her marvelously simple tomato/onion/butter sauce is revelatory.
somberi 5y ago
I highly recommend "Silver Spoon". Published in 1950s - about 2000 recipes - Indexed thoroughly - I use it both for its recipes and also for its heft as a doorstop. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Il_cucchiaio_d%27argento https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Il_cucchiaio_d%27argento https://www.phaidon.com/store/food-cook/the-silver-spoon-9780714862453/ https://www.phaidon.com/store/food-cook/the-silver-spoon-978... https://www.npr.org/transcripts/5006077 https://www.npr.org/transcripts/5006077 (The translation into English was a small miracle)
- Semaphor 5y ago
  Oh, I got the German version from my sister for Christmas once. I should really try to make some recipes from it, but it’s so much more work to look them up offline ;)
brimble 5y ago
Searching foreign recipes in their native language then using Google Translate on the recipe (assuming you don't speak the language) has served me well in the past. Some not-that-uncommon dishes are wildly different (and, sometimes, far better) from what you find searching in English. Often much fattier :-) Wikipedia can be helpful for translating the dish name. They'll either list the name directly, or you can switch to the version of the article in the dish's home language. Difficulty: this is less useful for Indian dishes because they'll almost always include ingredients an American won't have in even a stocked-for-Indian-dishes kitchen. Usually a great strategy for European dishes, at least, though.
mjul 5y ago
I believe Pellegrino Artusi’s La scienza in cucina e l'arte di mangiare bene ("The Science of Cooking and the Art of Eating Well") is the classic reference and has been in print since the late 19th century. It is available in many translations.
- martopix 5y ago
  It's an amusing read but it's hardly usable today unless you want to stuff a pheasant yourself.
campground 5y ago
The Italia Squisita YouTube channel has an excellent series of videos of Italian chefs preparing their signature dishes (lasagna: https://youtu.be/H-Ll19h9FFo https://youtu.be/H-Ll19h9FFo). They are 100% authentic Italian by definition, but if you are looking for THE singular authentic Lasagna recipe you aren’t going to find it. Even within Italy there are huge regional variations, and the practice is continually evolving to this day. I really like this chef’s outro (another lasagna video: https://youtu.be/zXZq6crD6WI https://youtu.be/zXZq6crD6WI) Basically he says “This is how I make it and honour my region and my ancestors, but you should make it however you like, and experiment, because it means the food is alive”.

by mhitza 5y ago

martopix 5y ago

can't say for a cookbook, but try https://www.giallozafferano.com/ https://www.giallozafferano.com/. Giallozafferano has essentially taken over all other italian websites for recipes, because it's clear, with pictures, and has EVERY recipe you can dream of. It also has an English language version as you can see. This said, Italians sometimes criticize it anyway, because it's not always perfectly proper, and because monopoly is never good. But Italians would criticize anything except their grandmothers when it comes to cooking, so I recommend you try it. It's generally a sufficiently good reference benchmark even for Italians and is complete.

cycomanic 5y ago
Thank you so much! Finding good recipes online has become such a disaster because of all the blog recipe spam, especially when looking for international dishes in English where even the decent sites have very "americanized" versions of the dish.
- martopix 5y ago
  I feel you, as a lover of Asian cuisine who certainly cannot google in Thai or Chinese.
  - brimble 5y ago
    Find dish on Wikipedia. It'll have the native name somewhere on the page, probably, or else you can switch to a version of the page in the correct language. Put dish name (and maybe the translated word for "recipe" or "food") in search engine. Find a page that looks like it has what you want. Hit it with Google Translate.

saysjonathan 5y ago

I’m not Italian but I have two favorite reference books: The Silver Spoon[0] and American Sfoglino[1] 0: https://www.phaidon.com/store/food-cook/the-silver-spoon-9780714862569/ https://www.phaidon.com/store/food-cook/the-silver-spoon-978... 1: https://evanfunke.com/orderamericansfoglino https://evanfunke.com/orderamericansfoglino

wyldfire 5y ago

I'd be willing to try a version with bechamel but the ricotta provides a signature distinctive taste. I suppose without it, it would taste pretty different. So, yeah, like the sibling comment says - this dish has evolved while retaining its old name. Much like some loanwords which take on new connotations.

martopix 5y ago
I would not use the word "evolve", because in Italy it has not "evolved". There has been made an American version, which would have been best if it were called with a different name, but I guess I can't have everything...
- iak8god 5y ago
  Wikipedia disagrees with you that there is such a thing as the one true "Italian" version of this dish: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lasagne#Local_variations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lasagne#Local_variations
rurban 5y ago
I would rather replace "evolved" with "degraded", or better butchered or destroyed. you can generally put all British, German or US cooking "evolvements" put into this category. thankfully the recent "fusion" cooking doesn't involve anything related to these evolvements, only the good asian and central american kitchens.

apawloski 5y ago

The authority in the English language is Marcella Hazan. Her "Essentials of Classic Italian Cooking" is probably the most comprehensive if you check out only one.

mhitza 5y ago
Just hit up the first amazon result to check out the book reviews, and seems like the recipes aren't traditional. Thanks for the suggestion however. Snippet of the review > As an example, I made the carbonara in this book which calls for (among other ingredients) ... "4 cloves of garlic" & "1/4 cup dry white wine" & "2 Large Eggs". > Upon further research, an authentic Italian carbonara has no garlic, no white wine and only the yolks of eggs. > I have found several recipes in this book already which are not true to the original recipes. Granted, this may not worry some people, but please bare in mind that if you are looking for true authentic Italian recipes ... look elsewhere. This book will not give it to you.
- martopix 5y ago
  Gosh, garlic and wine, what the hell... as for whole eggs, this is allowed, some people do that :)

letouj 5y ago

You can't really go wrong with Marcella Hazan's books. She was an evangelist for traditional Italian recipes and methods in the US starting in the 1970s much the same way Julia Child was with French cuisine. Her marvelously simple tomato/onion/butter sauce is revelatory.

somberi 5y ago

I highly recommend "Silver Spoon". Published in 1950s - about 2000 recipes - Indexed thoroughly - I use it both for its recipes and also for its heft as a doorstop. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Il_cucchiaio_d%27argento https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Il_cucchiaio_d%27argento https://www.phaidon.com/store/food-cook/the-silver-spoon-9780714862453/ https://www.phaidon.com/store/food-cook/the-silver-spoon-978... https://www.npr.org/transcripts/5006077 https://www.npr.org/transcripts/5006077 (The translation into English was a small miracle)

Semaphor 5y ago
Oh, I got the German version from my sister for Christmas once. I should really try to make some recipes from it, but it’s so much more work to look them up offline ;)

brimble 5y ago

Searching foreign recipes in their native language then using Google Translate on the recipe (assuming you don't speak the language) has served me well in the past. Some not-that-uncommon dishes are wildly different (and, sometimes, far better) from what you find searching in English. Often much fattier :-) Wikipedia can be helpful for translating the dish name. They'll either list the name directly, or you can switch to the version of the article in the dish's home language. Difficulty: this is less useful for Indian dishes because they'll almost always include ingredients an American won't have in even a stocked-for-Indian-dishes kitchen. Usually a great strategy for European dishes, at least, though.

mjul 5y ago

I believe Pellegrino Artusi’s La scienza in cucina e l'arte di mangiare bene ("The Science of Cooking and the Art of Eating Well") is the classic reference and has been in print since the late 19th century. It is available in many translations.

martopix 5y ago
It's an amusing read but it's hardly usable today unless you want to stuff a pheasant yourself.

campground 5y ago

The Italia Squisita YouTube channel has an excellent series of videos of Italian chefs preparing their signature dishes (lasagna: https://youtu.be/H-Ll19h9FFo https://youtu.be/H-Ll19h9FFo). They are 100% authentic Italian by definition, but if you are looking for THE singular authentic Lasagna recipe you aren’t going to find it. Even within Italy there are huge regional variations, and the practice is continually evolving to this day. I really like this chef’s outro (another lasagna video: https://youtu.be/zXZq6crD6WI https://youtu.be/zXZq6crD6WI) Basically he says “This is how I make it and honour my region and my ancestors, but you should make it however you like, and experiment, because it means the food is alive”.