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As an Italian I am contractually bound to replying that there is no mozzarella nor ricotta nor cream in traditional meat lasagne. It's a bechamel sauce, made of
by martopix 5y ago
As an Italian I am contractually bound to replying that there is no mozzarella nor ricotta nor cream in traditional meat lasagne. It's a bechamel sauce, made of milk. Booo!
- mhitza 5y agoCan you recommend a cooking book with 100% authentic Italian dishes? All the recipes I find online (especially from US sources) always like to add their own spin on a recipe. I make lasagna using bechamel sauce as well, but you'll also find videos with chefs that add mozarella (or other cheeses) to their bechamel sauce. So a traditional recipe can be sabotaged at every stage of the process!
- martopix 5y agocan't say for a cookbook, but try https://www.giallozafferano.com/ https://www.giallozafferano.com/. Giallozafferano has essentially taken over all other italian websites for recipes, because it's clear, with pictures, and has EVERY recipe you can dream of. It also has an English language version as you can see. This said, Italians sometimes criticize it anyway, because it's not always perfectly proper, and because monopoly is never good. But Italians would criticize anything except their grandmothers when it comes to cooking, so I recommend you try it. It's generally a sufficiently good reference benchmark even for Italians and is complete.
- cycomanic 5y agoThank you so much! Finding good recipes online has become such a disaster because of all the blog recipe spam, especially when looking for international dishes in English where even the decent sites have very "americanized" versions of the dish.
- martopix 5y agoI feel you, as a lover of Asian cuisine who certainly cannot google in Thai or Chinese.
- brimble 5y agoFind dish on Wikipedia. It'll have the native name somewhere on the page, probably, or else you can switch to a version of the page in the correct language. Put dish name (and maybe the translated word for "recipe" or "food") in search engine. Find a page that looks like it has what you want. Hit it with Google Translate.
- saysjonathan 5y agoI’m not Italian but I have two favorite reference books: The Silver Spoon[0] and American Sfoglino[1] 0: https://www.phaidon.com/store/food-cook/the-silver-spoon-9780714862569/ https://www.phaidon.com/store/food-cook/the-silver-spoon-978... 1: https://evanfunke.com/orderamericansfoglino https://evanfunke.com/orderamericansfoglino
- wyldfire 5y agoI'd be willing to try a version with bechamel but the ricotta provides a signature distinctive taste. I suppose without it, it would taste pretty different. So, yeah, like the sibling comment says - this dish has evolved while retaining its old name. Much like some loanwords which take on new connotations.
- martopix 5y agoI would not use the word "evolve", because in Italy it has not "evolved". There has been made an American version, which would have been best if it were called with a different name, but I guess I can't have everything...
- iak8god 5y agoWikipedia disagrees with you that there is such a thing as the one true "Italian" version of this dish: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lasagne#Local_variations https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lasagne#Local_variations
- rurban 5y agoI would rather replace "evolved" with "degraded", or better butchered or destroyed. you can generally put all British, German or US cooking "evolvements" put into this category. thankfully the recent "fusion" cooking doesn't involve anything related to these evolvements, only the good asian and central american kitchens.
- apawloski 5y agoThe authority in the English language is Marcella Hazan. Her "Essentials of Classic Italian Cooking" is probably the most comprehensive if you check out only one.
- mhitza 5y agoJust hit up the first amazon result to check out the book reviews, and seems like the recipes aren't traditional. Thanks for the suggestion however. Snippet of the review > As an example, I made the carbonara in this book which calls for (among other ingredients) ... "4 cloves of garlic" & "1/4 cup dry white wine" & "2 Large Eggs". > Upon further research, an authentic Italian carbonara has no garlic, no white wine and only the yolks of eggs. > I have found several recipes in this book already which are not true to the original recipes. Granted, this may not worry some people, but please bare in mind that if you are looking for true authentic Italian recipes ... look elsewhere. This book will not give it to you.
- martopix 5y agoGosh, garlic and wine, what the hell... as for whole eggs, this is allowed, some people do that :)
- letouj 5y agoYou can't really go wrong with Marcella Hazan's books. She was an evangelist for traditional Italian recipes and methods in the US starting in the 1970s much the same way Julia Child was with French cuisine. Her marvelously simple tomato/onion/butter sauce is revelatory.
- somberi 5y agoI highly recommend "Silver Spoon". Published in 1950s - about 2000 recipes - Indexed thoroughly - I use it both for its recipes and also for its heft as a doorstop. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Il_cucchiaio_d%27argento https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Il_cucchiaio_d%27argento https://www.phaidon.com/store/food-cook/the-silver-spoon-9780714862453/ https://www.phaidon.com/store/food-cook/the-silver-spoon-978... https://www.npr.org/transcripts/5006077 https://www.npr.org/transcripts/5006077 (The translation into English was a small miracle)
- Semaphor 5y agoOh, I got the German version from my sister for Christmas once. I should really try to make some recipes from it, but it’s so much more work to look them up offline ;)
- brimble 5y agoSearching foreign recipes in their native language then using Google Translate on the recipe (assuming you don't speak the language) has served me well in the past. Some not-that-uncommon dishes are wildly different (and, sometimes, far better) from what you find searching in English. Often much fattier :-) Wikipedia can be helpful for translating the dish name. They'll either list the name directly, or you can switch to the version of the article in the dish's home language. Difficulty: this is less useful for Indian dishes because they'll almost always include ingredients an American won't have in even a stocked-for-Indian-dishes kitchen. Usually a great strategy for European dishes, at least, though.
- mjul 5y agoI believe Pellegrino Artusi’s La scienza in cucina e l'arte di mangiare bene ("The Science of Cooking and the Art of Eating Well") is the classic reference and has been in print since the late 19th century. It is available in many translations.
- martopix 5y agoIt's an amusing read but it's hardly usable today unless you want to stuff a pheasant yourself.
- campground 5y agoThe Italia Squisita YouTube channel has an excellent series of videos of Italian chefs preparing their signature dishes (lasagna: https://youtu.be/H-Ll19h9FFo https://youtu.be/H-Ll19h9FFo). They are 100% authentic Italian by definition, but if you are looking for THE singular authentic Lasagna recipe you aren’t going to find it. Even within Italy there are huge regional variations, and the practice is continually evolving to this day. I really like this chef’s outro (another lasagna video: https://youtu.be/zXZq6crD6WI https://youtu.be/zXZq6crD6WI) Basically he says “This is how I make it and honour my region and my ancestors, but you should make it however you like, and experiment, because it means the food is alive”.
- ricardobeat 5y agoAs a third-generation Italian migrant, I'd remind you that food evolves. The grandmas and aunts always made both bolognese and chicken lasagna, with a heavy tomato sauce and a lot of cheese, in a pretty similar way (never any cream though). I'd take that any day over a "proper" one with bechamel!
- vitus 5y agoI smiled when I saw that your pasta dish included chicken, another example of how food evolves.
- pc86 5y agoNobody said it didn't evolve, and you're the first one to use the word "proper" which has a much different connotation than "traditional." Think of it as a snapshot in an event-sourced system. You can take a bunch of snapshots over time, but #53 is going to be the same every time. A "traditional" lasagna has a bechamel sauce. You can make it without, and it can be as good or better. It just won't be traditional, which is totally fine.
- esperent 5y agoI'm not Italian, but my impression from traveling in Italy is that every town\village\grandma has their own version of nearly every Italian dish and they all consider theirs to be the traditional version. I think I got told three or four times that I was in the village where focaccia was invented - different villages, that is. And they were all quite different focaccias so I guess they were all right. Side note: bechamel lasagne is usually called lasagne al forno and I think it comes from Bologna. In many other parts of Italy they don't use bechamel in their traditional lasagnes, and they often do use ricotta and mozzarella.
- namdnay 5y agoWhat’s a third generation Italian migrant? Your family has been migrating for three generations? Or you’re just an American with an Italian great-grandparent?
- namdnay 5y agoThis whole ricotta in lasagna thing is so strange… why on earth would you do that?
- rfrey 5y agoBecause it tastes really good.