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I had the same thought. Apple makes great hardware and the main thing that was holding me back from getting one was their heavy handed approach on what applica

I had the same thought. Apple makes great hardware and the main thing that was holding me back from getting one was their heavy handed approach on what applications I am allowed to install on my device and from what source. If this works I would probably go for it.

ericmay 5y ago
I’m the opposite. I buy an iPhone specifically because I want a locked-down device. World is about to get a little worse on this front.
- ketkev 5y ago
  But you can still choose to only download apps from Apple's app store?
  - ericmay 5y ago
    I explained this to another user. It’s not “I can just download apps from Apple’s App Store”. It’s everything that comes along with that. Also you can just buy a different phone if you want third-party stores.
  - Spivak 5y ago
    I really don’t get how people on a tech forum seem to believe that software is fungible. If I’m an Instagram user then I have to go to where it’s offered which will be the Meta store. As a user I can’t just download it on the App Store if it isn’t there. All of this legislation has been about publisher choice. Users do not not gain any choice in this — that’s all marketing.
- m101010 5y ago
  I fail to understand how this is affecting you. Do you think that the existence of other App-Stores is reducing the quality of the apps in the Apple-Store?
  - ericmay 5y ago
    Yes it will once it happens on iOS. Large companies like Facebook (not picking on Meta, just an easy example) really don’t want to follow Apple’s privacy guidelines, don’t want to ask users for permission to track their location, and don’t want to tell users what info they gather and how it’s used. Once Apple has to allow third-party app stores, many major software companies will either create their own App Store (great now I have to download 15 different stores) or move to a third-party store where these rules are non-existent. So what will happen is that there will be a major exodus of software from the Apple App Store and on to third-party stores, which for me means a rollback of all of the momentum and progress Apple has made by collectively bargaining on behalf of users against developers. In addition, this will fracture things that are easy and convenient, like Apple Pay, or Sign-in With Apple being a privacy-focused mandatory alternative to other SSO options. It’ll also long-term enable more dark patterns. Oh you signed up for this $14.99/month app? Well gotta call if you want to unsubscribe. Hell maybe even have to send a letter! For some completely asinine reason people think that “allow third party stores” means “I get all the same stuff now but stuff will be cheaper and ‘more innovative’ because developers won’t have to pay the ‘Apple Tax’” but the reality is you’ll just get the same stuff, at the same prices, but it’ll be less convenient and you’ll lose any benefits that we previously had when Apple was able to collectively bargain for users. Companies will not lower prices. > “This hasn’t happened on Android” Yes. Because when companies start enacting these rules, users will flee to iOS. You need to be able to launch your store and dark patterns on both platforms simultaneously. Otherwise users have options. > “I disagree, this won’t happen”. Ok sure. What assurances do I have? What are you doing to make me feel better that my experience won’t get worse? Until then I’m firmly against third-party stores. > “Apple enables oppression and a single point of failure for regulation - China for example can ‘control’ what’s on the store” Any third-party App Store that’s not a complete scam will be forced to comply with any exact rules that Apple has to. There’s no difference.
    - microtonal 5y ago
      Yes it will once it happens on iOS. Large companies like Facebook (not picking on Meta, just an easy example) really don’t want to follow Apple’s privacy guidelines, don’t want to ask users for permission to track their location, and don’t want to tell users what info they gather and how it’s used. Note though that in the EU they have to ask for permission to track their location and tell users what info they gather, thanks to the GDPR.
- andrew_ 5y ago
  There are those of us that would prefer to be protected, and those of us that would prefer to be free to make those decisions for ourselves. I've been an Android user for over a decade because of the latter.
- oxplot 5y ago
  > World is about to get a little worse on this front. I think you underestimate the talent at Apple. The reason things are locked down isn't just that it makes them secure, spam free, etc. That's true of course, but it's not the only way to do it. It is however, the easiest way and in absence of external force, there is little reason to complicate it. If EU succeeds in forcing Apple to open somethings up, then the brilliant folks at Apple will rise to the challenge and will innovate to either keep the quality as is or even make things better.
- fatboy 5y ago
  It's a shame that apple has been so obstinate for so long. Their behaviour is very clearly about money and not consumer protection, which is just used as a convenient excuse to hide behind. They could have allowed third-party payments through vetted providers. They could have reduced their rates to match those providers and no one would be so keen to use them anyway. They could mandate subscriptions must be cancellable with one click and even mandate using an api to make these all appear in the settings app. They could have ensured that their review staff were better trained to prevent capricious rejections. They instead decided to ride the wave of the apple tax for as long as they possibly could and then deal with whatever that caused later. And this is what it's caused.
natch 5y ago
It doesn’t allow people to install abusive and spyware apps on their spouse’s, girlfriend’s, coworker’s, roommate’s, and children’s devices… not to mention harmful ones on your own… that’s a feature. If you really want some nasty stuff on your phone for some reason you can always write it yourself or find something open source and install it with Xcode. You are free to do this; the idea that you are not is a myth regurgitated by haters who don’t think for themselves. Just good luck doing it on someone else’s iPhone without their permission.
- oxplot 5y ago
  > that’s a feature It's a feature that can be implemented, with similar if not better effectiveness, in various ways that doesn't completely lock down a platform. Don't ask me how because I'm no match for brains at Apple but if EU succeeds in forcing Apple to open things up, Apple will rise to the challenge and will figure it out, just the same way they figure out how to roll out an ECG monitor that complies with local regulations of multiple countries. In other words, Apple already works under large amount of constraints of existing laws and regulations when creating products and that requires a lot of constant innovation in itself. This will just be another constraint they have to follow.
  - natch 5y ago
    Nobody ever said Apple was static. They roll out updates all the time, of course. No different here. It helps to understand the reasons behind some of the lockdown.

ericmay 5y ago

I’m the opposite. I buy an iPhone specifically because I want a locked-down device. World is about to get a little worse on this front.

ketkev 5y ago
But you can still choose to only download apps from Apple's app store?
- ericmay 5y ago
  I explained this to another user. It’s not “I can just download apps from Apple’s App Store”. It’s everything that comes along with that. Also you can just buy a different phone if you want third-party stores.
- Spivak 5y ago
  I really don’t get how people on a tech forum seem to believe that software is fungible. If I’m an Instagram user then I have to go to where it’s offered which will be the Meta store. As a user I can’t just download it on the App Store if it isn’t there. All of this legislation has been about publisher choice. Users do not not gain any choice in this — that’s all marketing.
m101010 5y ago
I fail to understand how this is affecting you. Do you think that the existence of other App-Stores is reducing the quality of the apps in the Apple-Store?
- ericmay 5y ago
  Yes it will once it happens on iOS. Large companies like Facebook (not picking on Meta, just an easy example) really don’t want to follow Apple’s privacy guidelines, don’t want to ask users for permission to track their location, and don’t want to tell users what info they gather and how it’s used. Once Apple has to allow third-party app stores, many major software companies will either create their own App Store (great now I have to download 15 different stores) or move to a third-party store where these rules are non-existent. So what will happen is that there will be a major exodus of software from the Apple App Store and on to third-party stores, which for me means a rollback of all of the momentum and progress Apple has made by collectively bargaining on behalf of users against developers. In addition, this will fracture things that are easy and convenient, like Apple Pay, or Sign-in With Apple being a privacy-focused mandatory alternative to other SSO options. It’ll also long-term enable more dark patterns. Oh you signed up for this $14.99/month app? Well gotta call if you want to unsubscribe. Hell maybe even have to send a letter! For some completely asinine reason people think that “allow third party stores” means “I get all the same stuff now but stuff will be cheaper and ‘more innovative’ because developers won’t have to pay the ‘Apple Tax’” but the reality is you’ll just get the same stuff, at the same prices, but it’ll be less convenient and you’ll lose any benefits that we previously had when Apple was able to collectively bargain for users. Companies will not lower prices. > “This hasn’t happened on Android” Yes. Because when companies start enacting these rules, users will flee to iOS. You need to be able to launch your store and dark patterns on both platforms simultaneously. Otherwise users have options. > “I disagree, this won’t happen”. Ok sure. What assurances do I have? What are you doing to make me feel better that my experience won’t get worse? Until then I’m firmly against third-party stores. > “Apple enables oppression and a single point of failure for regulation - China for example can ‘control’ what’s on the store” Any third-party App Store that’s not a complete scam will be forced to comply with any exact rules that Apple has to. There’s no difference.
  - microtonal 5y ago
    Yes it will once it happens on iOS. Large companies like Facebook (not picking on Meta, just an easy example) really don’t want to follow Apple’s privacy guidelines, don’t want to ask users for permission to track their location, and don’t want to tell users what info they gather and how it’s used. Note though that in the EU they have to ask for permission to track their location and tell users what info they gather, thanks to the GDPR.
andrew_ 5y ago
There are those of us that would prefer to be protected, and those of us that would prefer to be free to make those decisions for ourselves. I've been an Android user for over a decade because of the latter.
oxplot 5y ago
> World is about to get a little worse on this front. I think you underestimate the talent at Apple. The reason things are locked down isn't just that it makes them secure, spam free, etc. That's true of course, but it's not the only way to do it. It is however, the easiest way and in absence of external force, there is little reason to complicate it. If EU succeeds in forcing Apple to open somethings up, then the brilliant folks at Apple will rise to the challenge and will innovate to either keep the quality as is or even make things better.
fatboy 5y ago
It's a shame that apple has been so obstinate for so long. Their behaviour is very clearly about money and not consumer protection, which is just used as a convenient excuse to hide behind. They could have allowed third-party payments through vetted providers. They could have reduced their rates to match those providers and no one would be so keen to use them anyway. They could mandate subscriptions must be cancellable with one click and even mandate using an api to make these all appear in the settings app. They could have ensured that their review staff were better trained to prevent capricious rejections. They instead decided to ride the wave of the apple tax for as long as they possibly could and then deal with whatever that caused later. And this is what it's caused.

natch 5y ago

It doesn’t allow people to install abusive and spyware apps on their spouse’s, girlfriend’s, coworker’s, roommate’s, and children’s devices… not to mention harmful ones on your own… that’s a feature. If you really want some nasty stuff on your phone for some reason you can always write it yourself or find something open source and install it with Xcode. You are free to do this; the idea that you are not is a myth regurgitated by haters who don’t think for themselves. Just good luck doing it on someone else’s iPhone without their permission.

oxplot 5y ago
> that’s a feature It's a feature that can be implemented, with similar if not better effectiveness, in various ways that doesn't completely lock down a platform. Don't ask me how because I'm no match for brains at Apple but if EU succeeds in forcing Apple to open things up, Apple will rise to the challenge and will figure it out, just the same way they figure out how to roll out an ECG monitor that complies with local regulations of multiple countries. In other words, Apple already works under large amount of constraints of existing laws and regulations when creating products and that requires a lot of constant innovation in itself. This will just be another constraint they have to follow.
- natch 5y ago
  Nobody ever said Apple was static. They roll out updates all the time, of course. No different here. It helps to understand the reasons behind some of the lockdown.