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Transgenderism is the treatment to dysphoria. Dysphoria is a condition that is just as demonstrably provable as depression or any other mental illness. If you

Transgenderism is the treatment to dysphoria. Dysphoria is a condition that is just as demonstrably provable as depression or any other mental illness. If you were to wake up tomorrow in the wrong body you would also have dysphoria, and you would also try to treat that. Humans are not some machines of perfect logical emotions and reasoning - you are no exception. On the contrary, it's narcissistic and selfish to think everyone has to be you, someone whom doesn't have dysphoria. That you are somehow the arbiter of what gender is. From what source is your knowledge based? I used to think things were defined in books and by experts, turns out we know jack about humans, all we can really know is by experiencing them, and I can tell you first hand dysphoria is enough for good people to kill themselves. So, think on why that is, and look to the truth for an answer.

fenderbluesjr 5y ago
Saying transgenderism is the treatment to dysphoria is itself an extremely controversial statement and not one you can present as as a pillar of any argument. There is a contingent that _don't want_ anything other than transgenderism to be the solution to dysphoria, because it would put a lot of question marks over the accepted dogma. This was previously on the WPATH Wikipedia page but has since been removed: In 2021, WPATH's President-Elect, Marci Bowers called the association intolerant of dissenting opinions. She said, "There are definitely people who are trying to keep out anyone who doesn't absolutely buy the party line that everything should be affirming, and that there's no room for dissent."
- devwastaken 5y ago
  It's not controversial, and the vast majority of transgender individuals belong to no orgs nor follow them. They're just people that are looking for solutions. There is always going to be political organizations using people and muddying the narrative for clout.
hitpointdrew 5y ago
> Transgenderism is the treatment to dysphoria. It's not a "treatment" at all. By definition a treatment (in this context) is: `The use of an agent, procedure, or regimen, such as a drug, surgery, or exercise, in an attempt to cure or mitigate a disease, condition, or injury.` Transgenderism is the rejection of any treatments, and an insistence there is no disease, condition, or injury. > On the contrary, it's narcissistic and selfish to think everyone has to be you I never claimed this. That said, if you want to have any useful discussions and dialog there has to be an agreement on things like definitions and facts. Otherwise communication is completely a useless endeavor. > That you are somehow the arbiter of what gender is. Again, never claimed I am somehow solely the arbiter or what gender is. >From what source is your knowledge based? From 1,000's of years of human history and language of people classifying biological sex. Also, just having common sense and the ability to do basic reasoning.
- devwastaken 5y ago
  If you receive surgery to stop your back from hurting, is that not a treatment? Transgenderism does not reject that there is a problem. It exists exactly because there's a problem it is resolving. I'm going to make a number of assumptions. 1. Your ideas of transgender comes from fabricated ideas you've heard other people say. 2. You've never experienced what working with real humans is like, nor do you care to. 3. You didn't learn this topic before deciding to talk about it. To have an honest conversation you have to do honest work to learn something. From what I see you have chosen to watch a few YouTube videos or sources that align with your pre conceived ideas. Therefore, you are not interested in being convinced. If you're actually interested in learning the topic you're going to have to accept humans are different from you, feel things you don't, and have to live lives you do not. Look into why, be honest, and persue truth over whatever fancy you're having here.
  - hitpointdrew 5y ago
    > If you receive surgery to stop your back from hurting, is that not a treatment? Yes that would be treatment. If you look back at the definition of a treatment you will see they are all things you do only to the affected individual. Treatments are directed inward to fix an issue with the self. Transgenderism, at least in its current form, is directed outward demanding everyone else prescribe to an ideology, that is not a treatment, that is tyranny. > I'm going to make a number of assumptions. Feel free to make all the assumptions you want about me. However, all the ones you have listed are 100% false. > To have an honest conversation… Seems to me your idea of an “honest conversation” is simply me siding with your point of view, anything less in your view is somehow “less than honest”. There doesn’t seem to be any room for disagreement in you definition of an “honest conversation”. > From what I see you have chosen to watch a few YouTube videos or sources that align with your pre conceived ideas. Therefore, you are not interested in being convinced. Now you are simply attacking my character and dismissing me rather than trying to dispute my arguments or engage in, as you put it, an honest conversation. > If you're actually interested in learning the topic you're going to have to accept humans are different from you, feel things you don't, and have to live lives you do not. I have never disputed that people can’t feel whatever the hell they want. That’s fine. I don’t expect, or even imagine, that anyones life experiences have been the same as mine. You are totally misrepresenting what I have argued. Look the fundamental problem here is that the world, the universe, exists inside a framework, and we exist in that framework. We can manipulate it to some extent, but we aren’t gods. We cannot rewrite the framework. You don’t have to like the framework, but you can’t fundamentally change it either. For example, someone paralyzed from the neck down may hate that they are paralyzed. They may wish with all their being that they weren’t paralyzed. They may feel that they are in the wrong body and that they should be in an abled body. And no doubt being paralyzed probably causes people to go through emotional hell. But reality isn’t going to change. Treatment is accepting reality, however fucking hard that may be, and playing the best hand you can with the cards that are dealt. Not demanding that you are able bodied, and asking the world to agree that you are able bodied because that is how you feel. And by no means am I ridiculing, or disparaging paralyzed people here. There are paralyzed people that have accomplished amazing things, and have done way more impressive things than I could ever hope to do. But those people didn’t, and never would have, accomplished those things if they refused to accept the cards they were dealt and instead became hyper focused on their disability and how it made them feel. No technology exists, yet anyway, that can change a persons XX chromosomes to XY, or vice versa. You might think that sucks, you might hate it, but it is the framework and reality that exists. If your asking me to denounce that framework (reality), and enter into a delusion, then sorry but my answer is no.

fenderbluesjr 5y ago

Saying transgenderism is the treatment to dysphoria is itself an extremely controversial statement and not one you can present as as a pillar of any argument. There is a contingent that _don't want_ anything other than transgenderism to be the solution to dysphoria, because it would put a lot of question marks over the accepted dogma. This was previously on the WPATH Wikipedia page but has since been removed: In 2021, WPATH's President-Elect, Marci Bowers called the association intolerant of dissenting opinions. She said, "There are definitely people who are trying to keep out anyone who doesn't absolutely buy the party line that everything should be affirming, and that there's no room for dissent."

devwastaken 5y ago
It's not controversial, and the vast majority of transgender individuals belong to no orgs nor follow them. They're just people that are looking for solutions. There is always going to be political organizations using people and muddying the narrative for clout.

hitpointdrew 5y ago

> Transgenderism is the treatment to dysphoria. It's not a "treatment" at all. By definition a treatment (in this context) is: `The use of an agent, procedure, or regimen, such as a drug, surgery, or exercise, in an attempt to cure or mitigate a disease, condition, or injury.` Transgenderism is the rejection of any treatments, and an insistence there is no disease, condition, or injury. > On the contrary, it's narcissistic and selfish to think everyone has to be you I never claimed this. That said, if you want to have any useful discussions and dialog there has to be an agreement on things like definitions and facts. Otherwise communication is completely a useless endeavor. > That you are somehow the arbiter of what gender is. Again, never claimed I am somehow solely the arbiter or what gender is. >From what source is your knowledge based? From 1,000's of years of human history and language of people classifying biological sex. Also, just having common sense and the ability to do basic reasoning.

devwastaken 5y ago
If you receive surgery to stop your back from hurting, is that not a treatment? Transgenderism does not reject that there is a problem. It exists exactly because there's a problem it is resolving. I'm going to make a number of assumptions. 1. Your ideas of transgender comes from fabricated ideas you've heard other people say. 2. You've never experienced what working with real humans is like, nor do you care to. 3. You didn't learn this topic before deciding to talk about it. To have an honest conversation you have to do honest work to learn something. From what I see you have chosen to watch a few YouTube videos or sources that align with your pre conceived ideas. Therefore, you are not interested in being convinced. If you're actually interested in learning the topic you're going to have to accept humans are different from you, feel things you don't, and have to live lives you do not. Look into why, be honest, and persue truth over whatever fancy you're having here.
- hitpointdrew 5y ago
  > If you receive surgery to stop your back from hurting, is that not a treatment? Yes that would be treatment. If you look back at the definition of a treatment you will see they are all things you do only to the affected individual. Treatments are directed inward to fix an issue with the self. Transgenderism, at least in its current form, is directed outward demanding everyone else prescribe to an ideology, that is not a treatment, that is tyranny. > I'm going to make a number of assumptions. Feel free to make all the assumptions you want about me. However, all the ones you have listed are 100% false. > To have an honest conversation… Seems to me your idea of an “honest conversation” is simply me siding with your point of view, anything less in your view is somehow “less than honest”. There doesn’t seem to be any room for disagreement in you definition of an “honest conversation”. > From what I see you have chosen to watch a few YouTube videos or sources that align with your pre conceived ideas. Therefore, you are not interested in being convinced. Now you are simply attacking my character and dismissing me rather than trying to dispute my arguments or engage in, as you put it, an honest conversation. > If you're actually interested in learning the topic you're going to have to accept humans are different from you, feel things you don't, and have to live lives you do not. I have never disputed that people can’t feel whatever the hell they want. That’s fine. I don’t expect, or even imagine, that anyones life experiences have been the same as mine. You are totally misrepresenting what I have argued. Look the fundamental problem here is that the world, the universe, exists inside a framework, and we exist in that framework. We can manipulate it to some extent, but we aren’t gods. We cannot rewrite the framework. You don’t have to like the framework, but you can’t fundamentally change it either. For example, someone paralyzed from the neck down may hate that they are paralyzed. They may wish with all their being that they weren’t paralyzed. They may feel that they are in the wrong body and that they should be in an abled body. And no doubt being paralyzed probably causes people to go through emotional hell. But reality isn’t going to change. Treatment is accepting reality, however fucking hard that may be, and playing the best hand you can with the cards that are dealt. Not demanding that you are able bodied, and asking the world to agree that you are able bodied because that is how you feel. And by no means am I ridiculing, or disparaging paralyzed people here. There are paralyzed people that have accomplished amazing things, and have done way more impressive things than I could ever hope to do. But those people didn’t, and never would have, accomplished those things if they refused to accept the cards they were dealt and instead became hyper focused on their disability and how it made them feel. No technology exists, yet anyway, that can change a persons XX chromosomes to XY, or vice versa. You might think that sucks, you might hate it, but it is the framework and reality that exists. If your asking me to denounce that framework (reality), and enter into a delusion, then sorry but my answer is no.