6 ms·

The exact opposite is true, god believers are putting for positive claims, atheists are putting forth actual evidence that no one claiming divine beings has bee

by stuu99 5y ago

The exact opposite is true, god believers are putting for positive claims, atheists are putting forth actual evidence that no one claiming divine beings has been able to put forth any evidence of their position. You don't seem to grasp human beings fought over their imaginary beings for centuries and created all sorts of drama that had real world political implications, it's nice of you to theory craft from your comfortable chair in the 21st century but the reality is mistaken notions of reality has given birth to centuries of blood and suffering. So no, your gobbledygook is not neutral, your not some higher reasoning being, you're clueless because I do research in this area and you can test whether words or ideas in language are valid because its a natural phenomenon.

Maursault 5y ago
You are welcome to prove your claims with a proof of impossibility or with evidence of absence. Otherwise, you will not be able to prove that something does not exist the way it has been proven there is no largest prime number. Basically, you have a strong opinion with nothing substantive to support it. That is all. In effect, you do not know, rather, you believe. You have faith that God does not exist. Deists are no different.
- stuu99 5y ago
  - Maursault 5y ago
    > you don't know anything about how language or your brain works It seems there is a proclivity here to make claims that one could not possibly know are true while committing an astounding three fallacies simultaneously, the ad hominem, the argument from authority, and the straw man. Congratulations on your fallacious hat-trick. Your argument here is invalid thrice.
    - stuu99 5y ago
      There's nothing invalid about it, because you don't grasp that the words you see and hear are not the real language the brain uses to reason with. You think when you put words onto a screen or into a book you have any idea what your brain is doing. You do not. Don't think so? All the different various religious sects would disagree with you, aka the fact there are so many versions of christianity each with distinct conceptions of god means these people "reasoning" have no idea wtf is going on in their brain. That's reality, sorry buddy. Try again.
  - subjectsigma 5y ago
    - stuu99 5y ago
      You're unaware that science advances and I do research in this field on the brain, reasoning and language. So you are obliviously unaware of the headway of cutting edge research that undermines old notions that you were taught about how reason works. Sorry to tell you random internet commenter will never compete with someone who researches human reasoning for a living. That is why I know things that you don't and you think you are "reasoning" not having any idea how reasoning processes in the brain work. The whole process can be studied and reverse engineered and that has implications for "bad reasoning" aka much "good reasoning" that is seen as such will be seen as "bad reasoning" as science of reasoning works advances. Sorry to tell ya, but you don't understand enough about your own brain to even engage in conversation with me about this topic.
      - Bancakes 5y ago
      - subjectsigma 4y ago
        You are completely full of shit.
- awb 5y ago
  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot > the philosophic burden of proof lies upon a person making empirically unfalsifiable claims, rather than shifting the burden of disproof to others. I think you’re doing the opposite and expecting a burden of disproof instead of a burden of proof. A burden of disproof is unreasonable and frequently unattainable.
  - Maursault 5y ago
    Not so much. I am not asking those that claim, "God does not exist," to disprove their claim. Regardless of whether the claim is negative or affirmative, the burden of proof is upon the claimant, which is not me.
    - ghusto 5y ago
      We are not claiming gods don't exist. You're claiming they might, and were asking why would you say such a thing. If I said "It's possible there are teapots orbiting some distant planets", you would hopefully disregard the statement as being nonsense. It is possible, but so what? Putting the word "possible" before something doesn't by itself make it worth my time to think about.
      - Maursault 5y ago
        > We are not claiming gods don't exist. On the contrary, that is precisely the atheists' claim. > You're claiming they might I have made no such claim, making your assertion a straw man fallacy. My claim was only that among atheists, deists and agnostics, only agnostics have a compelling argument. IOW neither atheists' nor deists' arguments have logical nor epistemological merit, and the flaws in their arguments are identical: claiming unknowable knowledge.
        awb 5y ago
        > On the contrary, that is precisely the atheists' claim Not 100% correct. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism > Atheism, in the broadest sense, is an absence of belief in the existence of deities.[1][2][3][4] Less broadly, atheism is a rejection of the belief that any deities exist.[5][6] In an even narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. You’re talking about the most narrow definition, which is addressed by Russell’s Teapot. According to Russel, the logical position that there is no teapot floating in space is much more reasonable in the absence of evidence than saying you don’t know. To say you don’t know and to continue to entertain theories of a teapot in space is simply a waste of time. Or, if you say you don’t know but refuse to entertain theories of the teapot, then you’re simply projecting agnosticism, without truly practicing it. A more common application of the term “atheism” is the absence of belief. An absence of belief requires no proof. It’s a rejection of an assertion, which is different than an assertion. In fact, it’s a common logical starting point of not believing in something until you have a reason to believe. I’m sure you do it all the time with knowledge that isn’t innate. And then of course as evidence presents itself you’re free to reevaluate and change your mind. You don’t get any bonus points for “not ever being wrong” by saying “I don’t know” all the time. It’s perfectly reasonable to say “I don’t believe you.” Or “No, it doesn’t.” as long as you’re willing to accept future information and revise your views then. Not being wrong isn’t the same as being right. Progress comes equally from doubt as it does from curiosity. Countless discoveries were made by rejecting unsubstantiated claims. So from a practical standpoint, rejecting theories seems to have some utility. So, if accepting or rejecting a hypothesis helps someone live a better life, then why not?

by stuu99 5y ago

Maursault 5y ago

You are welcome to prove your claims with a proof of impossibility or with evidence of absence. Otherwise, you will not be able to prove that something does not exist the way it has been proven there is no largest prime number. Basically, you have a strong opinion with nothing substantive to support it. That is all. In effect, you do not know, rather, you believe. You have faith that God does not exist. Deists are no different.

stuu99 5y ago
- Maursault 5y ago
  > you don't know anything about how language or your brain works It seems there is a proclivity here to make claims that one could not possibly know are true while committing an astounding three fallacies simultaneously, the ad hominem, the argument from authority, and the straw man. Congratulations on your fallacious hat-trick. Your argument here is invalid thrice.
  - stuu99 5y ago
    There's nothing invalid about it, because you don't grasp that the words you see and hear are not the real language the brain uses to reason with. You think when you put words onto a screen or into a book you have any idea what your brain is doing. You do not. Don't think so? All the different various religious sects would disagree with you, aka the fact there are so many versions of christianity each with distinct conceptions of god means these people "reasoning" have no idea wtf is going on in their brain. That's reality, sorry buddy. Try again.
- subjectsigma 5y ago
  - stuu99 5y ago
    You're unaware that science advances and I do research in this field on the brain, reasoning and language. So you are obliviously unaware of the headway of cutting edge research that undermines old notions that you were taught about how reason works. Sorry to tell you random internet commenter will never compete with someone who researches human reasoning for a living. That is why I know things that you don't and you think you are "reasoning" not having any idea how reasoning processes in the brain work. The whole process can be studied and reverse engineered and that has implications for "bad reasoning" aka much "good reasoning" that is seen as such will be seen as "bad reasoning" as science of reasoning works advances. Sorry to tell ya, but you don't understand enough about your own brain to even engage in conversation with me about this topic.
    - Bancakes 5y ago
    - subjectsigma 4y ago
      You are completely full of shit.
awb 5y ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell's_teapot > the philosophic burden of proof lies upon a person making empirically unfalsifiable claims, rather than shifting the burden of disproof to others. I think you’re doing the opposite and expecting a burden of disproof instead of a burden of proof. A burden of disproof is unreasonable and frequently unattainable.
- Maursault 5y ago
  Not so much. I am not asking those that claim, "God does not exist," to disprove their claim. Regardless of whether the claim is negative or affirmative, the burden of proof is upon the claimant, which is not me.
  - ghusto 5y ago
    We are not claiming gods don't exist. You're claiming they might, and were asking why would you say such a thing. If I said "It's possible there are teapots orbiting some distant planets", you would hopefully disregard the statement as being nonsense. It is possible, but so what? Putting the word "possible" before something doesn't by itself make it worth my time to think about.
    - Maursault 5y ago
      > We are not claiming gods don't exist. On the contrary, that is precisely the atheists' claim. > You're claiming they might I have made no such claim, making your assertion a straw man fallacy. My claim was only that among atheists, deists and agnostics, only agnostics have a compelling argument. IOW neither atheists' nor deists' arguments have logical nor epistemological merit, and the flaws in their arguments are identical: claiming unknowable knowledge.
      - awb 5y ago
        > On the contrary, that is precisely the atheists' claim Not 100% correct. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism > Atheism, in the broadest sense, is an absence of belief in the existence of deities.[1][2][3][4] Less broadly, atheism is a rejection of the belief that any deities exist.[5][6] In an even narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. You’re talking about the most narrow definition, which is addressed by Russell’s Teapot. According to Russel, the logical position that there is no teapot floating in space is much more reasonable in the absence of evidence than saying you don’t know. To say you don’t know and to continue to entertain theories of a teapot in space is simply a waste of time. Or, if you say you don’t know but refuse to entertain theories of the teapot, then you’re simply projecting agnosticism, without truly practicing it. A more common application of the term “atheism” is the absence of belief. An absence of belief requires no proof. It’s a rejection of an assertion, which is different than an assertion. In fact, it’s a common logical starting point of not believing in something until you have a reason to believe. I’m sure you do it all the time with knowledge that isn’t innate. And then of course as evidence presents itself you’re free to reevaluate and change your mind. You don’t get any bonus points for “not ever being wrong” by saying “I don’t know” all the time. It’s perfectly reasonable to say “I don’t believe you.” Or “No, it doesn’t.” as long as you’re willing to accept future information and revise your views then. Not being wrong isn’t the same as being right. Progress comes equally from doubt as it does from curiosity. Countless discoveries were made by rejecting unsubstantiated claims. So from a practical standpoint, rejecting theories seems to have some utility. So, if accepting or rejecting a hypothesis helps someone live a better life, then why not?