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>Ok, so is the issue that "science" now has to play the same rules as everyone else? By everyone else you mean other for-profit companies. Yes, that's exactly t
by _aavaa_ 5y ago
>Ok, so is the issue that "science" now has to play the same rules as everyone else?
By everyone else you mean other for-profit companies. Yes, that's exactly the problem.
Universities as we think of them are on a spectrum between a research university and one that teaches undergrads.
A research university that must act like a for-profit business can turn into the outsourced R&D department of a company, at best. Or at worst you get the hot mess of food/health/pharmaceutical research whose problems are best exemplified by looking at the history researchers on the payroll of tobacco companies.
If the undergrad/grad teaching universities need to act like a for profit business, they start converging towards a strange combination of teaching "fundamental skills" as well as "job relevant skills", as I or anyone who knows people currently in one can attest to. A poor cross between a company's outsourced job training program, minus actual hands on experience, and what universities claimed to be about, minus the rigor.
Or, more cynically, the university transforms into a place to go get a piece of paper that you need to get a well paying job which has the vaneer of teaching you deep concepts as well as skills useful on the job.
- drekipus 5y agoI agree. Brain storming some ideas: I think a large portion of the problem is expecting university to be needed to get a job. It's largely not true, but it's perceived to be true, and so students fill up ranks in droves, and further to that, unis (under the current model) are incentivised to make lower barriers of entries and to graduate more students. I think largely, the solution would be to stop the "uni is needed for jobs" thing. have training centers, have in job apprenticeship programs, etc, or atleast keep uni minimally involved. I think if uni was to stop being seen as a "job centre" and was relied upon for more governmental policy things, or allowed to interact with business while also keeping as the seperate special class / meritocratic, then it'd be forever-protected (theoretically if it was working well). Unfortunately university is one of Australia's prime exports, so things aren't changing here any time soon (here).
- _aavaa_ 5y agoNot just Australia, I don’t really see it changing in North America either. It’s gonna get worse before it gets better. > I think largely, the solution would be to stop the "uni is needed for jobs" thing. have training centers, have in job apprenticeship programs, etc, or atleast keep uni minimally involved. I agree that this would be the result of a solution. But the question is, how do we get society as a whole to believe that? I cynically, and honestly, believe that people aren’t going to stop believing that it’s necessary to get an undergrad degree (and pretty soon a masters) until three universities have burned through their reputation and prestige.