4 ms·

Yeah... this makes you lose all your privacy, and exclude all the people in the world who either don't have a credit card, or don't want to use one. Thank you,

Yeah... this makes you lose all your privacy, and exclude all the people in the world who either don't have a credit card, or don't want to use one. Thank you, but no.

rhizome 5y ago
That's a separate problem. The topic is about running a site that crawls up your browser's ass as far as possible.
- ajsnigrutin 5y ago
  This is assuming, that they wont profile/fingerprint you, if you pay. Surely no service like that would ever double dip
  - rhizome 5y ago
    It's still a separate problem.
Nextgrid 5y ago
> this makes you lose all your privacy The alternative (advertising) is not better. > exclude all the people in the world who either don't have a credit card, or don't want to use one. Advertising also excludes everyone except a tiny minority (the advertisers) who are allowed to call the shots because they’re paying the bills.
- ihateolives 5y ago
  >> this makes you lose all your privacy > The alternative (advertising) is not better. Umm, adblockers, tor and whatnot can help with ads tracking and but you can't take back your privacy once you've given identifying information. >> exclude all the people in the world who either don't have a credit card, or don't want to use one. > Advertising also excludes everyone except a tiny minority (the advertisers) who are allowed to call the shots because they’re paying the bills. You have no idea how extremely white this part of the internet is that we're currently on. Comparing not having credit card to having ads in your browser is ridiculously out of touch with reality.
  - Nextgrid 5y ago
    > adblockers, tor and whatnot can help with ads tracking Ad-blockers only work as long as there's a majority who does not use them. If everyone uses ad-blockers, the system collapses. Furthermore, ad-blockers encourage a game of cat & mouse where both the provider and the consumer are constantly at odds, with nasty side-effects like alternative clients being forbidden, etc. > you can't take back your privacy once you've given identifying information. My argument is that you should be able to give identifying information without it being abused for nefarious purposes. > You have no idea how extremely white this part of the internet is that we're currently on Oh come on, there was no need to bring race into this. But hey, if that's your argument, I'd say that having a bunch of white tech-bros in the ad & social media industry control the entire communications infrastructure and social fabric of "non-white" (to use your words) nations is not better. > Comparing not having credit card to having ads in your browser is ridiculously out of touch with reality. Do you really think that ad-supported platforms just offer service to the credit-card-less third-world for free? No, they do so because there are advertisers who are happy to pay, and those advertisers in turn know how to get their money back (and more than that) from those people without credit cards.
klabb3 5y ago
Definitely not intending to shill crypto (on HN of all places), but it seems like a good (as good as it gets, possibly) use case for anonymous – zero-knowledge – cryptocurrency transactions.
- gpm 5y ago
  Now you've just raised the barrier to entry even higher for normal people, and lowered the barrier to entry even lower for cybercriminals with crypto that they would need to launder if they were going to attach it to an actual identity. I doubt this is a win.
  - heavyset_go 5y ago
    It's important to recognize that there's a glut of cryptocurrency collected from illegal transactions, and that money needs to be laundered if the holders want to liquidate it. It would be dumb to go to exchanges, so they need to rely on shady groups to cash out, ensuring that there's a lot of cryptocurrency in the hands of questionable people or organizations.
  - klabb3 5y ago
    > Now you've just raised the barrier to entry even higher for normal people How so?
    - gpm 5y ago
      They have to figure out how to use a new (to them) payment system...
      - klabb3 5y ago
        Oh, I misread as the barrier of entry to crypto. My bad. On topic, you could just have multiple payment methods side by side.
- heavyset_go 5y ago
  It seems like the anonymizing cryptocurrencies get blackballed by exchanges, meaning most people won't have access to them. Coinbase, for example, only allows transfers of Zcash to transparent addresses, which can be traced, and buying Monero isn't possible.

Yeah... this makes you lose all your privacy, and exclude all the people in the world who either don't have a credit card, or don't want to use one. Thank you, but no.

rhizome 5y ago

That's a separate problem. The topic is about running a site that crawls up your browser's ass as far as possible.

ajsnigrutin 5y ago
This is assuming, that they wont profile/fingerprint you, if you pay. Surely no service like that would ever double dip
- rhizome 5y ago
  It's still a separate problem.

Nextgrid 5y ago

> this makes you lose all your privacy The alternative (advertising) is not better. > exclude all the people in the world who either don't have a credit card, or don't want to use one. Advertising also excludes everyone except a tiny minority (the advertisers) who are allowed to call the shots because they’re paying the bills.

ihateolives 5y ago
>> this makes you lose all your privacy > The alternative (advertising) is not better. Umm, adblockers, tor and whatnot can help with ads tracking and but you can't take back your privacy once you've given identifying information. >> exclude all the people in the world who either don't have a credit card, or don't want to use one. > Advertising also excludes everyone except a tiny minority (the advertisers) who are allowed to call the shots because they’re paying the bills. You have no idea how extremely white this part of the internet is that we're currently on. Comparing not having credit card to having ads in your browser is ridiculously out of touch with reality.
- Nextgrid 5y ago
  > adblockers, tor and whatnot can help with ads tracking Ad-blockers only work as long as there's a majority who does not use them. If everyone uses ad-blockers, the system collapses. Furthermore, ad-blockers encourage a game of cat & mouse where both the provider and the consumer are constantly at odds, with nasty side-effects like alternative clients being forbidden, etc. > you can't take back your privacy once you've given identifying information. My argument is that you should be able to give identifying information without it being abused for nefarious purposes. > You have no idea how extremely white this part of the internet is that we're currently on Oh come on, there was no need to bring race into this. But hey, if that's your argument, I'd say that having a bunch of white tech-bros in the ad & social media industry control the entire communications infrastructure and social fabric of "non-white" (to use your words) nations is not better. > Comparing not having credit card to having ads in your browser is ridiculously out of touch with reality. Do you really think that ad-supported platforms just offer service to the credit-card-less third-world for free? No, they do so because there are advertisers who are happy to pay, and those advertisers in turn know how to get their money back (and more than that) from those people without credit cards.

klabb3 5y ago

Definitely not intending to shill crypto (on HN of all places), but it seems like a good (as good as it gets, possibly) use case for anonymous – zero-knowledge – cryptocurrency transactions.

gpm 5y ago
Now you've just raised the barrier to entry even higher for normal people, and lowered the barrier to entry even lower for cybercriminals with crypto that they would need to launder if they were going to attach it to an actual identity. I doubt this is a win.
- heavyset_go 5y ago
  It's important to recognize that there's a glut of cryptocurrency collected from illegal transactions, and that money needs to be laundered if the holders want to liquidate it. It would be dumb to go to exchanges, so they need to rely on shady groups to cash out, ensuring that there's a lot of cryptocurrency in the hands of questionable people or organizations.
- klabb3 5y ago
  > Now you've just raised the barrier to entry even higher for normal people How so?
  - gpm 5y ago
    They have to figure out how to use a new (to them) payment system...
    - klabb3 5y ago
      Oh, I misread as the barrier of entry to crypto. My bad. On topic, you could just have multiple payment methods side by side.
heavyset_go 5y ago
It seems like the anonymizing cryptocurrencies get blackballed by exchanges, meaning most people won't have access to them. Coinbase, for example, only allows transfers of Zcash to transparent addresses, which can be traced, and buying Monero isn't possible.