5 ms·

I think one of the overlooked pieces of the email is on the second page. I read it yesterday so my memory isn't super fresh. But he essentially says that: * th

I think one of the overlooked pieces of the email is on the second page. I read it yesterday so my memory isn't super fresh. But he essentially says that: * they've been hiring people at $18-20/hr * the government pandemic aid/unemployment is dropping off and therefore they are no longer "competing with the government" I think a lot of the "progress" with increasing wages was artificially inflated by government overspending of unemployment and COVID benefits. The people out there looking for jobs were in a sellers market. They could get a better rate because people were staying at home because "they could make more on unemployment". Now we're moving back to a buyer's market as that runs out and people are forced to re-enter the workforce. While I think we can agree what he is saying here is cold, he has an interesting point. Ultimately the government is responsible for this and it will be interesting to see how it impacts wages and the mid-terms given what inflation is doing. Personally, it seems like we are in for a "correction" in the labor market where we will see wages go down since more people _need_ jobs and aren't relying on government handouts. But I think he's mainly pointing out that the wages were artificially high and are going to lower back down. Perhaps to $12-15 an hour? Who knows.

mym1990 5y ago
I think thinking through the economics of the situation is one thing, but voicing it to the people you employ is a bit different.
- nvahalik 5y ago
  I come at this from probably a different perspective. A close family member has been having problems hiring people recently. People want to make a minimum of $15/hr. For some small businesses this is a hard ask. But it's complicated further by the fact that many of the people they have hired have walked out when they got busy. Basically, they want to be paid to sit around and do the minimum amount of work possible. All the while not realizing that the person who is employing them is just barely more than they are (and bearing the brunt of bad months by making less). So personally, I know that many small business owners are definitely hoping that the market changes so that they can hire not only quality people but at a rate that makes more economic sense. In this case, this isn't some super-specialized job, it's just a job with high variability in load and requires (sometimes) long hours doing tedious (but not physically demanding) work.
  - jhgb 5y ago
    > For some small businesses this is a hard ask. On that note, I've seem someone remark that some business owners apparently believe that "don't buy things you can't afford" applies to everyone but them.
  - HarryHirsch 5y ago
    Perhaps start lobbying for affordable housing and labour rights. Right now, the only kind of leverage that workers have is to leave, and they are doing just that.
  - mym1990 5y ago
    I am not suggesting that the owners try to make the economics work in an impossible way that makes them go out of business, I know the uncertainty in this environment is making things very difficult. But while owners can look at aggregate data, a single worker is looking at this as a way to survive until tomorrow. They don't want to be made into a statistic, so the owners should keep that to themselves.
    - nvahalik 5y ago
      One would think that but given how quickly some people give up and go without a job leads me to think that something else is at play. That is—if they truly needed the job I don’t think people would give up and leave so easily.
Schroedingersat 5y ago
Seller's market is a funny way of saying they're not being held hostage for their lives.
- seneca 5y ago
  > Seller's market is a funny way of saying they're not being held hostage for their lives. Sorry, are you saying that expecting people to work to meet their own needs is them being "held hostage for their lives"?
  - dlp211 5y ago
    When they are denied the opportunity to easily obtain better positions through structural roadblocks, I would to an extent say this. At a minimum I would say that they are being exploited.
  - Schroedingersat 5y ago
    People being forced to sell their only product (labour) at any price to the first bidder or have that product vanish (hours go by) and starve in a situation with massive information asymmetry where the bidders are using collective bargaining and control the means of survival is not a market interaction. Pretending like it is is completely insane.

mym1990 5y ago

I think thinking through the economics of the situation is one thing, but voicing it to the people you employ is a bit different.

nvahalik 5y ago
I come at this from probably a different perspective. A close family member has been having problems hiring people recently. People want to make a minimum of $15/hr. For some small businesses this is a hard ask. But it's complicated further by the fact that many of the people they have hired have walked out when they got busy. Basically, they want to be paid to sit around and do the minimum amount of work possible. All the while not realizing that the person who is employing them is just barely more than they are (and bearing the brunt of bad months by making less). So personally, I know that many small business owners are definitely hoping that the market changes so that they can hire not only quality people but at a rate that makes more economic sense. In this case, this isn't some super-specialized job, it's just a job with high variability in load and requires (sometimes) long hours doing tedious (but not physically demanding) work.
- jhgb 5y ago
  > For some small businesses this is a hard ask. On that note, I've seem someone remark that some business owners apparently believe that "don't buy things you can't afford" applies to everyone but them.
- HarryHirsch 5y ago
  Perhaps start lobbying for affordable housing and labour rights. Right now, the only kind of leverage that workers have is to leave, and they are doing just that.
- mym1990 5y ago
  I am not suggesting that the owners try to make the economics work in an impossible way that makes them go out of business, I know the uncertainty in this environment is making things very difficult. But while owners can look at aggregate data, a single worker is looking at this as a way to survive until tomorrow. They don't want to be made into a statistic, so the owners should keep that to themselves.
  - nvahalik 5y ago
    One would think that but given how quickly some people give up and go without a job leads me to think that something else is at play. That is—if they truly needed the job I don’t think people would give up and leave so easily.

Schroedingersat 5y ago

Seller's market is a funny way of saying they're not being held hostage for their lives.

seneca 5y ago
> Seller's market is a funny way of saying they're not being held hostage for their lives. Sorry, are you saying that expecting people to work to meet their own needs is them being "held hostage for their lives"?
- dlp211 5y ago
  When they are denied the opportunity to easily obtain better positions through structural roadblocks, I would to an extent say this. At a minimum I would say that they are being exploited.
- Schroedingersat 5y ago
  People being forced to sell their only product (labour) at any price to the first bidder or have that product vanish (hours go by) and starve in a situation with massive information asymmetry where the bidders are using collective bargaining and control the means of survival is not a market interaction. Pretending like it is is completely insane.