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> to ban minority languages from schools Please, it's not a ban. The relevant law only applies to state-funded schools and makes sure that students who don't s

by geoka9 5y ago

> to ban minority languages from schools Please, it's not a ban. The relevant law only applies to state-funded schools and makes sure that students who don't speak Ukrainian gradually learn it over the years and start using it in school: _https://ukrainian-studies.ca/2020/08/01/ukraines-russian-language-secondary-schools-switch-to-ukrainian-language-instruction-a-challenge/ https://ukrainian-studies.ca/2020/08/01/ukraines-russian-lan... If Ukraine hasn't been the target of Russian territorial expansionism, we could argue that this law is overreaching. However Russia had claimed the right to "defend Russian-speaking people" outside of Russia before invading Ukraine in 2014 (the law was passed in 2017). Under these conditions, passing such a law was practically a question of self-preservation.

whimsicalism 5y ago
Your link is broken.
- geoka9 5y ago
  Thanks, updated.
whimsicalism 5y ago
> Please, it's not a ban. The relevant law only applies to state-funded schools and makes sure that students who don't speak Ukrainian gradually learn it over the years and start using it in school: Really? Reading your source it seems that it explicitly states "Ukrainian as the only means of instruction in schools after the primary division." Saying that this only applies to "state-funded schools" may be true, but you're papering over the fact that your own source indicates that fewer than 1% of students attend non-public schools. From your own source: > The Law determines three patterns for Ukrainian-language instruction in secondary schools of Ukraine. The first concerns indigenous peoples such as the Crimean Tatars, who have the right to be educated in their own language, with Ukrainian taught as a separate subject, at any school stage. The second pattern addresses Ukraine’s national minorities whose languages are official languages of the EU. The primary school division is available for them in their minority language (with Ukrainian as a separate subject), while higher divisions see a graduated expansion of Ukrainian-language instruction—from twenty percent in fifth year to forty percent in ninth year of middle (junior high) school and to sixty percent of all subjects during the three years of high school. The third pattern applies to “other minorities,” i.e., Russians and Russian-speaking Ukrainians who attend Russian-language secondary schools. For them, Ukrainian-language instruction should be at a minimum of eighty percent in both middle and high schools, with the opportunity to have Russian taught as a subject or elective. The Law also clearly states that these provisions apply to state-funded schools only and entitles all private schools to a free choice of their language of instruction; nevertheless, private schools must teach the Ukrainian language and ensure that their students acquire the fluency standard defined by the state. Seems from reading this that Russian is specifically targeted and proscribed from being taught in schools. Keep in mind there are entire regions of Ukraine where Russian is the predominant language. And we wonder why people in Crimea wanted to leave after Euromaidan... > Under these conditions, passing such a law was practically a question of self-preservation. By eliminating Russian speaking people in Ukraine? Not a great justification.
- geoka9 5y ago
  Again, the Euromaidan happened in 2014. This law was passed in 2017, 3 years after the Euromaidan, because Russia invaded Ukraine giving the mere existence of the Russian language in Ukraine as the reason for the invasion. > And we wonder why people in Crimea wanted to leave after Euromaidan... > By eliminating Russian speaking people in Ukraine? Not a great justification. I see. I made the mistake of assuming you were arguing in good faith. Won't happen again; have a nice day!
  - whimsicalism 5y ago
    > This law was passed in 2017, 3 years after the Euromaidan, because Russia invaded Ukraine giving the mere existence of the Russian language in Ukraine as the reason for the invasion. Russia also invaded Ukraine in 2014. The parliament voted to ban Russian language in schools immediately after 2014, it was only vetoed by the president at the time. > I see. I made the mistake of assuming you were arguing in good faith. Won't happen again; have a nice day! I am arguing in good faith - you claimed that the reason they stopped teaching Russian in schools was due to the Russian invasion, but there is ample evidence of attempts to do this prior to the Russian invasion.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > Seems from reading this that Russian is specifically targeted and proscribed from being taught in schools Seems to me you cited the part where it is explicitly allowed to be taught in schools, both private and public, contradicting your claim that it is “proscribed from being taught in schools”.

by geoka9 5y ago

whimsicalism 5y ago

Your link is broken.

geoka9 5y ago
Thanks, updated.

whimsicalism 5y ago

> Please, it's not a ban. The relevant law only applies to state-funded schools and makes sure that students who don't speak Ukrainian gradually learn it over the years and start using it in school: Really? Reading your source it seems that it explicitly states "Ukrainian as the only means of instruction in schools after the primary division." Saying that this only applies to "state-funded schools" may be true, but you're papering over the fact that your own source indicates that fewer than 1% of students attend non-public schools. From your own source: > The Law determines three patterns for Ukrainian-language instruction in secondary schools of Ukraine. The first concerns indigenous peoples such as the Crimean Tatars, who have the right to be educated in their own language, with Ukrainian taught as a separate subject, at any school stage. The second pattern addresses Ukraine’s national minorities whose languages are official languages of the EU. The primary school division is available for them in their minority language (with Ukrainian as a separate subject), while higher divisions see a graduated expansion of Ukrainian-language instruction—from twenty percent in fifth year to forty percent in ninth year of middle (junior high) school and to sixty percent of all subjects during the three years of high school. The third pattern applies to “other minorities,” i.e., Russians and Russian-speaking Ukrainians who attend Russian-language secondary schools. For them, Ukrainian-language instruction should be at a minimum of eighty percent in both middle and high schools, with the opportunity to have Russian taught as a subject or elective. The Law also clearly states that these provisions apply to state-funded schools only and entitles all private schools to a free choice of their language of instruction; nevertheless, private schools must teach the Ukrainian language and ensure that their students acquire the fluency standard defined by the state. Seems from reading this that Russian is specifically targeted and proscribed from being taught in schools. Keep in mind there are entire regions of Ukraine where Russian is the predominant language. And we wonder why people in Crimea wanted to leave after Euromaidan... > Under these conditions, passing such a law was practically a question of self-preservation. By eliminating Russian speaking people in Ukraine? Not a great justification.

geoka9 5y ago
Again, the Euromaidan happened in 2014. This law was passed in 2017, 3 years after the Euromaidan, because Russia invaded Ukraine giving the mere existence of the Russian language in Ukraine as the reason for the invasion. > And we wonder why people in Crimea wanted to leave after Euromaidan... > By eliminating Russian speaking people in Ukraine? Not a great justification. I see. I made the mistake of assuming you were arguing in good faith. Won't happen again; have a nice day!
- whimsicalism 5y ago
  > This law was passed in 2017, 3 years after the Euromaidan, because Russia invaded Ukraine giving the mere existence of the Russian language in Ukraine as the reason for the invasion. Russia also invaded Ukraine in 2014. The parliament voted to ban Russian language in schools immediately after 2014, it was only vetoed by the president at the time. > I see. I made the mistake of assuming you were arguing in good faith. Won't happen again; have a nice day! I am arguing in good faith - you claimed that the reason they stopped teaching Russian in schools was due to the Russian invasion, but there is ample evidence of attempts to do this prior to the Russian invasion.
dragonwriter 5y ago
> Seems from reading this that Russian is specifically targeted and proscribed from being taught in schools Seems to me you cited the part where it is explicitly allowed to be taught in schools, both private and public, contradicting your claim that it is “proscribed from being taught in schools”.