3 ms·

> Most smartphones are sold on a kind-of-subscription basis currently > technically it’s a finance agreement and you own the phone, but in reality people don’t

> Most smartphones are sold on a kind-of-subscription basis currently > technically it’s a finance agreement and you own the phone, but in reality people don’t buy phones fully outright and it’s closer to a subscription service than outright purchase for most people A finance model and a subscription model are two different things. I’m baffled why you’re conflating the two and especially this comment, “it’s closer to a subscription service than outright purchase for most people”. When you finance a purchase, you agree to make small payments over some period. At the end of the period, assuming your balance is paid off, you own the product. Not the bank. Not Apple. You. A subscription model is where you pay every month in exchange for the right to use or access something. For example, I wanted to watch some TV shows my friends have been raving about. I subscribed to Apple TV+ for one month, watched both seasons, and then cancelled my subscription. I can no longer watch the show. I have no remaining claim unless I restart my subscription.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
Closi 5y ago
Well it isn't an outright purchase for most people buying a phone on contract - i.e. they don't pay for it upfront, don't own the device upfront (typically you only own the device at the end of the contract term), and they pay a monthly subscription/contract charge to the carrier (who offers them a set of services in exchange for a monthly charge). So I'm a little baffled as to why you are baffled that a 'pay monthly for a service where you don't own the phone for 3 years' could be considered more similar to the concept of a subscription than the concept of outright ownership. Would you prefer the term 'Phone contract subscription with an inclusive phone hire-purchase agreement'? (Which I still think is more similar to a subscription than outright ownership).
- ozzythecat 5y ago
  > Well it isn't an outright purchase for most people buying a phone on contract - i.e. they don't pay for it upfront, don't own the device upfront Yes, this how is how a finance model works. Why are you giving us an example of financing works when the real question is on purchasing (with or without financing) vs leasing? > So I'm a little baffled as to why you are baffled that a 'pay monthly for a service where you don't own the phone for 3 years' could be considered more similar to the concept of a subscription than the concept of outright ownership. Your statements are inaccurate. For all practical purposes, if I purchase a new iPhone from ATT or T-Mobile on contract, I do own the phone. It’s now mine. I can’t skip my contractual obligations and just ask ATT to take the phone back. I keep the phone but the full balance becomes immediately due. Financing and leasing are two different things.
  - Closi 5y ago
    > For all practical purposes, if I purchase a new iPhone from ATT or T-Mobile on contract, I do own the phone. What do you think owning something outright means? (If i can own something outright while it not legally being mine, and me paying for its use monthly via a contract, you have a more flexible definition of outright ownership than me!) With this definition, I own my home outright with a mortgage. (This is of course nonsense, and by definition owning outright means it is unencumbered).

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

Closi 5y ago

Well it isn't an outright purchase for most people buying a phone on contract - i.e. they don't pay for it upfront, don't own the device upfront (typically you only own the device at the end of the contract term), and they pay a monthly subscription/contract charge to the carrier (who offers them a set of services in exchange for a monthly charge). So I'm a little baffled as to why you are baffled that a 'pay monthly for a service where you don't own the phone for 3 years' could be considered more similar to the concept of a subscription than the concept of outright ownership. Would you prefer the term 'Phone contract subscription with an inclusive phone hire-purchase agreement'? (Which I still think is more similar to a subscription than outright ownership).

ozzythecat 5y ago
> Well it isn't an outright purchase for most people buying a phone on contract - i.e. they don't pay for it upfront, don't own the device upfront Yes, this how is how a finance model works. Why are you giving us an example of financing works when the real question is on purchasing (with or without financing) vs leasing? > So I'm a little baffled as to why you are baffled that a 'pay monthly for a service where you don't own the phone for 3 years' could be considered more similar to the concept of a subscription than the concept of outright ownership. Your statements are inaccurate. For all practical purposes, if I purchase a new iPhone from ATT or T-Mobile on contract, I do own the phone. It’s now mine. I can’t skip my contractual obligations and just ask ATT to take the phone back. I keep the phone but the full balance becomes immediately due. Financing and leasing are two different things.
- Closi 5y ago
  > For all practical purposes, if I purchase a new iPhone from ATT or T-Mobile on contract, I do own the phone. What do you think owning something outright means? (If i can own something outright while it not legally being mine, and me paying for its use monthly via a contract, you have a more flexible definition of outright ownership than me!) With this definition, I own my home outright with a mortgage. (This is of course nonsense, and by definition owning outright means it is unencumbered).