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It continues to surprise me that humans are surprised at other animals having deep intelligence and emotions and thoughts. As if the fact that animals don't spe
by bmitc 5y ago
It continues to surprise me that humans are surprised at other animals having deep intelligence and emotions and thoughts. As if the fact that animals don't speak English or whatever else human language is somehow a negative reflection upon them.
- kyaghmour 5y agoWhen I was younger, I read many books by Henri Laborit (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henri_Laborit https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henri_Laborit) -- his work is predominantly in French. As a surgeon and neurobiologist, he wrote a lot about the biology of behaviour. I can't find the interview anymore, but during an interview (also in French) with a Canadian journalist he quipped this: "L'homme est un animal, le problème c'est qu'il parle." (roughly: "Man is an animal, the problem is that he uses language.") And, so, I agree with the essence of your position. But maybe the problem isn't that humans are surprised that other animals feeling/thinking. Rather the problem might be that humans think they actually aren't animals to begin with.
- tigen 5y agoWell, 1 out of 2 people has below-average intelligence. And the comments you see online vastly amplify the opinions of a small few. Heck, not long ago you'd find a lot of humans saying this about other humans.
- TallonRain 5y agoSame here. As someone who has spent his life around many animals, either as pets or in the wild or other contexts, it’s very plain that humans are surrounded by respectably sentient creatures. It always floors me whenever people are shocked at the complex thoughts, emotions, behavior and planning capabilities of non-human animals. It really just seems fundamentally obvious if you bother to interact with other creatures long enough. Heck, I’ve run into way too many people who refuse to even acknowledge that we humans are animals as well and I feel this innate arrogance persists to our detriment.
- weq 5y agoHuman are there own folley thinking that they are the definition of intelligence. In years to come, we will realise how simple our physiology is, compared to the other creatures. Brain included.
- encryptluks2 5y agoI think a lot of it has to do with the fact that a lot of people eat animals and so it makes them feel better ethically to see them as not having feelings or intelligence. Sometimes the animals they eat may actually be more intelligent than domesticated animals.
- omegaworks 5y agoIt really shouldn't surprise you given the amount of humans that treat other humans like they lack deep intelligence, emotions and thoughts if they don't speak English.
- jodrellblank 5y ago"As if they are inferior because they don't speak English" is a pretty cheap shot; cows eat grass, what reason do they have for deep intelligence and thoughts, why would you expect a-priori that they must have such? It's sometimes suggested that human intelligence rose quite quickly from trying to outwit other humans; do cows try to outwit each other and slaughter other cow tribes to take control of their fields? Another point is, other animals do dumb things - like videos of ducks walking over drains and the ducklings fall down the drain, or creature stuck in plastic sheet until it dies. Or creature does nothing while humans approach, kill, and eat it. It's hard to see examples like that and think "deep intelligence". Emotions, yes - a lot of fear, pain, excitement, skittishness, visible in a lot of animal behviours. But examples of planning ahead, cooperation, tool using, they're so rare they make headlines like this article when observed.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- thereare5lights 5y ago> cows eat grass, what reason do they have for deep intelligence and thoughts This line of argument doesn't make much sense given that pigs are very intelligent and you'd probably say "pigs roll in the mud, what reason do they have for deep intelligence and thoughts" > other animals do dumb things - like videos of ducks walking over drains and the ducklings fall down the drain, or creature stuck in plastic sheet until it dies. Or creature does nothing while humans approach, kill, and eat it. It's hard to see examples like that and think "deep intelligence". I could say the same about most humans > But examples of planning ahead, cooperation, tool using, they're so rare they make headlines like this article when observed. This is true, but the way you go about making a case for it ain't it.
- jodrellblank 5y agoThis line of argument makes sense given that humans use ~20% of our energy running our brains, and evolution is known for cutting out energy hungry things which aren't helpful for survival. Cows don't have cooked fatty meat as a ready supply of energy, they don't need to chase prey, they don't need accurate throwing of spears or organising groups to set traps. Why would they evolve whatever you think "deep thoughts" are? And no, it doesn't help to say "given pigs are intelligent, then pigs are intelligent". > "I could say the same about most humans" Go on then, say that most humans are stupid therefore "humans are not intelligent". That will be a very productive line of reasoning.
- paskozdilar 5y agoAgreed. Animals have their own understanding of the world, sometimes a lot more perceptive than ours.
- meristohm 5y agoAre We Smart Enough to Know How Smart Animals Are? book by ethologist Frans de Waal: https://www.worldcat.org/title/are-we-smart-enough-to-know-how-smart-animals-are/ https://www.worldcat.org/title/are-we-smart-enough-to-know-h...