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The other day I wanted to learn Svelte. Even though the tutorials on the Svelte homepage are great, I found the MDN Svelte tutorial to be better: it explains th

The other day I wanted to learn Svelte. Even though the tutorials on the Svelte homepage are great, I found the MDN Svelte tutorial to be better: it explains the conceptual differences wrt other frontend frameworks well, it explains in detail how to enable Typescript and migrate your projects, and it has a dedicated section that describes different deployment options. While of - of course - all of these infos can be found somewhere on the web as well, I very much appreciate such a well-written, holistic intro to a framework. I signed up for the MDN Plus 5 plan. P.S.: If someone from the MDN team is reading this, maybe include a "sign up" link directly in the blog article from Hermina.

culopatin 5y ago
Same with Django. It feels like the MDN tutorials come from someone that knows more of what you’ll run into when learning it. The Django docs while great have a bit of that “I built this so let me give you ALL the details or a very basic thing”. MSN is right in the middle.
- charrondev 5y ago
  That’s the difference between the person who made the docs - Being a good technical writer. - Being some who learned the tool/platform rather than someone who built the platform. It much harder to write a doc on something if you’ve never been able to look at it from an outside perspective.
zepearl 5y ago
(unrelated to the main topic) > The other day I wanted to learn Svelte... Any highlight(s) regarding positive/negative experiences that you had with Svelte so far? Asking because it's on my to-do list for my future frontend (bought 2 books about it, but pending to be read as I'm currently first trying to assimilate "Rust" to program the backends) and I ended up selecting Svelte as potential best candidate after having read the docs & having played with its tutorials => I therefore got a general "positive initial feeling" about it. The last time I wrote a web-UI was many years ago with PHP & Codeigniter & some hand-written Javascript (from my POV that was alright, lightweight/simple/flexible/low-effort and performance was ok, I would/could do that again but maybe Svelte might be better for what I'd like to do now), so I'm not really up-to-date in this area - Svelte just sounds lightweight & flexible enough for me... . Cheers :)
- com2kid 5y ago
  > Any highlight(s) regarding positive/negative experiences that you had with Svelte so far? Sveltekit was a bit of a pain to get running, but using svelte itself has been insanely nice. I got an entire internal website up and running with a bunch of cool functionality in ~3 days. The state management with Redux alone would have taken that long if I was using React. Being able to just use regular HTML is also nice. There are some gotchas, how it handles CSS is kinda weird, and docs beyond the basics are rough in places.
  - zepearl 5y ago
    Thank you! :)
  - westoncb 5y ago
    Just fyi, there is no need to use Redux just because you're using React. If it's a pretty simple case, you can use the built in `useReducer`[0]. Or if you want something that'll scale but that's much more lightweight than Redux, I'd recommend Zustand[1]. [0] https://reactjs.org/docs/hooks-reference.html#usereducer https://reactjs.org/docs/hooks-reference.html#usereducer [1] https://github.com/pmndrs/zustand https://github.com/pmndrs/zustand
    - lIIIllllIIII 5y ago
      Zustand looks so nice. I wanted to create my own state management library just for fun and spent a while brainstorming it and then ran into Zustand which basically does exactly what I wanted (but has presumably been developed by people who know what they're doing_
    - girvo 5y ago
      Amen. We've entirely just used `useReducer` in combo with `useContext` where needed, and its been brilliant (this is a 100k LOC React app)
- KindAndFriendly 5y ago
  Pros: - Very easy to learn. If you know TS/JS+HTML, there are ~ a handful new syntax expressions to learn, but otherwise you're good to go. - Easy to integrate an external CSS framework such as bootstrap - Built-int TS support. Being able to use types in your frontend code is delightful. Cons: - The generated output puts the vast majority of the content in the JS files (vs having a least some skeleton or so in HTML).
hipjiveguy 5y ago
I only realized this a bit ago, but the docs of every product are essentially press pieces. They can't really call out "we suck at this", or "product X is way better, use it instead". Only third parties ever do this, so that's what this is so often the case.
- trulyme 5y ago
  OSS actually sometimes does that - here is what we do, and hey, someone else is doing something similar.

culopatin 5y ago

Same with Django. It feels like the MDN tutorials come from someone that knows more of what you’ll run into when learning it. The Django docs while great have a bit of that “I built this so let me give you ALL the details or a very basic thing”. MSN is right in the middle.

charrondev 5y ago
That’s the difference between the person who made the docs - Being a good technical writer. - Being some who learned the tool/platform rather than someone who built the platform. It much harder to write a doc on something if you’ve never been able to look at it from an outside perspective.

zepearl 5y ago

(unrelated to the main topic) > The other day I wanted to learn Svelte... Any highlight(s) regarding positive/negative experiences that you had with Svelte so far? Asking because it's on my to-do list for my future frontend (bought 2 books about it, but pending to be read as I'm currently first trying to assimilate "Rust" to program the backends) and I ended up selecting Svelte as potential best candidate after having read the docs & having played with its tutorials => I therefore got a general "positive initial feeling" about it. The last time I wrote a web-UI was many years ago with PHP & Codeigniter & some hand-written Javascript (from my POV that was alright, lightweight/simple/flexible/low-effort and performance was ok, I would/could do that again but maybe Svelte might be better for what I'd like to do now), so I'm not really up-to-date in this area - Svelte just sounds lightweight & flexible enough for me... . Cheers :)

com2kid 5y ago
> Any highlight(s) regarding positive/negative experiences that you had with Svelte so far? Sveltekit was a bit of a pain to get running, but using svelte itself has been insanely nice. I got an entire internal website up and running with a bunch of cool functionality in ~3 days. The state management with Redux alone would have taken that long if I was using React. Being able to just use regular HTML is also nice. There are some gotchas, how it handles CSS is kinda weird, and docs beyond the basics are rough in places.
- zepearl 5y ago
  Thank you! :)
- westoncb 5y ago
  Just fyi, there is no need to use Redux just because you're using React. If it's a pretty simple case, you can use the built in `useReducer`[0]. Or if you want something that'll scale but that's much more lightweight than Redux, I'd recommend Zustand[1]. [0] https://reactjs.org/docs/hooks-reference.html#usereducer https://reactjs.org/docs/hooks-reference.html#usereducer [1] https://github.com/pmndrs/zustand https://github.com/pmndrs/zustand
  - lIIIllllIIII 5y ago
    Zustand looks so nice. I wanted to create my own state management library just for fun and spent a while brainstorming it and then ran into Zustand which basically does exactly what I wanted (but has presumably been developed by people who know what they're doing_
  - girvo 5y ago
    Amen. We've entirely just used `useReducer` in combo with `useContext` where needed, and its been brilliant (this is a 100k LOC React app)
KindAndFriendly 5y ago
Pros: - Very easy to learn. If you know TS/JS+HTML, there are ~ a handful new syntax expressions to learn, but otherwise you're good to go. - Easy to integrate an external CSS framework such as bootstrap - Built-int TS support. Being able to use types in your frontend code is delightful. Cons: - The generated output puts the vast majority of the content in the JS files (vs having a least some skeleton or so in HTML).

hipjiveguy 5y ago

I only realized this a bit ago, but the docs of every product are essentially press pieces. They can't really call out "we suck at this", or "product X is way better, use it instead". Only third parties ever do this, so that's what this is so often the case.

trulyme 5y ago
OSS actually sometimes does that - here is what we do, and hey, someone else is doing something similar.