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There was a package (that I won’t name) which completely removed their online documentation and replaced it with a BLM message for a period of time. I was floor

There was a package (that I won’t name) which completely removed their online documentation and replaced it with a BLM message for a period of time. I was floored at that unprofessional behavior. Now when I link to their docs, I always use archive.org to make sure other users don’t run into a similar issue in the future.

mpweiher 5y ago
> I was floored at that unprofessional behavior. Profession - "A professional is a member of a profession or any person who earns a living from a specified professional activity. " If you want professional behavior, pay the person. If you want free, you get whatever the person wants to give you for free.
- morpheuskafka 5y ago
  The term professional is clearly applicable to software engineers working on open source projects, just as it is for lawyers doing pro bono work, and just like a plumber fixing his neighbors' sink for free is still performing his trade and expected to do work that upholds its standards. No one is required to do any work for an open source project, but they are expected to behave in a professional manner and plenty of people have been rightly criticized here when they acted inappropriately as part of an open source team. Its debatable whether OP is right, but there's at least a case to be made that taking down documentation that was not costing any money to host for the sole purpose of making an unrelated statement (not one targeted at their customers, just society in general) does damage the professional reputation of the team and its product.
  - frumper 5y ago
    I would agree that doing stunts is likely to damage a teams reputation, but I think you cast way too large a net to say that software engineers working on open source projects are professional, or even acting as professionals. The OSS ecosystem is filled with everything from large well run organizations to kids posting simple tools that are filled with bugs and vulnerabilities. There are no good expectations beyond use at your own risk. Even large professional organizations kill projects and leave people hanging.
- oauea 5y ago
  If you want people to use your stuff, which you probably do because you put it out there, be professional. If you don't care, then do whatever the hell you want of course.
- rdiddly 5y ago
  How 'bout if I go one commit back, and get what they wanted to give me for free one commit ago? Anyway, if we ignore for now the circularity of that definition of "professional" and take it at face value, then swapping out your open-source docs for a political message would fail the definition of professional, not just based on the "earn a living" part, but also on the "specified professional activity" part. Assuming we're using their repo because it's, like, for programming computers and shit, we might be surprised to find out they had changed their profession from computer-programmer and computer-program-explainer, to worked-up self-important opinion-haver. Which even fewer people would pay money for, by the way.
cuteboy19 5y ago
To be clear if you are not paying them, there should be no expectation of service. Open source is something they offer out of passion or goodwill, both of which can change at any time
- prepend 5y ago
  It’s not the expectation, it’s the reputation of the project. If a project does dumb stuff like taking down existing documentation, that reflects poorly on the project. It shows poor judgement and unreliability. I don’t require them to be smart and professional, but they should be or will lose users. Thanks to OSS, I can just fork. But being OSS doesn’t mean you can suck and be random and still stay useful to people. Of course if it’s your project, you’re free to do whatever you would like.
- dunkelheit 5y ago
  Open source (and by extension a large chunk of software industry) runs on the expectation that people won't do random disruptive things even if it is plainly stated in the license that there is no such guarantee. Perhaps we should move away from this expectation (and events such as these will certainly accelerate the transition), but this is the current state of affairs.
  - shadowgovt 5y ago
    > Open source (and by extension a large chunk of software industry) runs on the expectation that people won't do random disruptive things even if it is plainly stated in the license that there is no such guarantee. Counterpoint: much of our industry is often described as being in the business of disruptive technology. It's been educational for me to watch how developers are reacting when they're on the receiving end of the disruption.
    - esyir 5y ago
      There's industry disruption and there's bs like this. If I threw in a random CTD and called it "DISRUPTION" , I'd be rightly laughed out of the room.

mpweiher 5y ago

> I was floored at that unprofessional behavior. Profession - "A professional is a member of a profession or any person who earns a living from a specified professional activity. " If you want professional behavior, pay the person. If you want free, you get whatever the person wants to give you for free.

morpheuskafka 5y ago
The term professional is clearly applicable to software engineers working on open source projects, just as it is for lawyers doing pro bono work, and just like a plumber fixing his neighbors' sink for free is still performing his trade and expected to do work that upholds its standards. No one is required to do any work for an open source project, but they are expected to behave in a professional manner and plenty of people have been rightly criticized here when they acted inappropriately as part of an open source team. Its debatable whether OP is right, but there's at least a case to be made that taking down documentation that was not costing any money to host for the sole purpose of making an unrelated statement (not one targeted at their customers, just society in general) does damage the professional reputation of the team and its product.
- frumper 5y ago
  I would agree that doing stunts is likely to damage a teams reputation, but I think you cast way too large a net to say that software engineers working on open source projects are professional, or even acting as professionals. The OSS ecosystem is filled with everything from large well run organizations to kids posting simple tools that are filled with bugs and vulnerabilities. There are no good expectations beyond use at your own risk. Even large professional organizations kill projects and leave people hanging.
oauea 5y ago
If you want people to use your stuff, which you probably do because you put it out there, be professional. If you don't care, then do whatever the hell you want of course.
rdiddly 5y ago
How 'bout if I go one commit back, and get what they wanted to give me for free one commit ago? Anyway, if we ignore for now the circularity of that definition of "professional" and take it at face value, then swapping out your open-source docs for a political message would fail the definition of professional, not just based on the "earn a living" part, but also on the "specified professional activity" part. Assuming we're using their repo because it's, like, for programming computers and shit, we might be surprised to find out they had changed their profession from computer-programmer and computer-program-explainer, to worked-up self-important opinion-haver. Which even fewer people would pay money for, by the way.

cuteboy19 5y ago

To be clear if you are not paying them, there should be no expectation of service. Open source is something they offer out of passion or goodwill, both of which can change at any time

prepend 5y ago
It’s not the expectation, it’s the reputation of the project. If a project does dumb stuff like taking down existing documentation, that reflects poorly on the project. It shows poor judgement and unreliability. I don’t require them to be smart and professional, but they should be or will lose users. Thanks to OSS, I can just fork. But being OSS doesn’t mean you can suck and be random and still stay useful to people. Of course if it’s your project, you’re free to do whatever you would like.
dunkelheit 5y ago
Open source (and by extension a large chunk of software industry) runs on the expectation that people won't do random disruptive things even if it is plainly stated in the license that there is no such guarantee. Perhaps we should move away from this expectation (and events such as these will certainly accelerate the transition), but this is the current state of affairs.
- shadowgovt 5y ago
  > Open source (and by extension a large chunk of software industry) runs on the expectation that people won't do random disruptive things even if it is plainly stated in the license that there is no such guarantee. Counterpoint: much of our industry is often described as being in the business of disruptive technology. It's been educational for me to watch how developers are reacting when they're on the receiving end of the disruption.
  - esyir 5y ago
    There's industry disruption and there's bs like this. If I threw in a random CTD and called it "DISRUPTION" , I'd be rightly laughed out of the room.