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This doesn't explain the mobile app boom then. There are more Windows desktop devices than all of all the Apple ecosystem. Also, there is a higher cost for weba

by sirjaz 5y ago

This doesn't explain the mobile app boom then. There are more Windows desktop devices than all of all the Apple ecosystem. Also, there is a higher cost for webapps, since you need to host it on your own instance. If you want an easy deployment method you can use one of the package managers out there that make deployment and upgrading easy. Hell windows has winget and chocolaty now which make deployment and update easy.

bin_bash 5y ago
Apple has hamstrung Safari so it's not capable enough to replace webapps (chiefly for notifications)
- owlbite 5y ago
  The nakedly predatory user-hostile nature of many large actors on the web really gave them no choice.
  - bin_bash 5y ago
    Do you think it's that or they'd prefer to get their 30% cut of transactions?
    - KerrAvon 5y ago
      I think it's that. Remember that Steve Jobs didn't want third party apps on the iPhone and had to be talked into it.
      - ace2358 5y ago
        Right, the original story was write web apps. So Apple has changed tunes on this topic before.
      - bccdee 5y ago
        Steve Jobs is dead, and Apple's primary responsibility is to its shareholders, not its users. Subtly and pervasively hamstringing PWAs doesn't protect users. What would it even be protecting them from? PWAs that work well offline? No, it just coerces developers into writing native apps and distributing them through Apple's App Store instead.
        wbear 5y ago
        While being locked in to a single app store without jailbreak isn't ideal, I'd rather have a native app on my phone than some lowest-bidder web app that downloads 10MB every time and runs terribly.
JumpCrisscross 5y ago
> doesn't explain the mobile app boom then If my laptop is connected to the Internet, it's fast. That isn't as universally true on mobile. (Desktops are also more reliably connected to the internet when on.)
- sirjaz 5y ago
  But the performance is worse. I point out the example of a small spreadsheet. Open it in Google sheets, and you are using 1/2 gigs+ in ram plus heavy cpu. Open it in a desktop app maybe you will use 20 to 30 mb of ram, and low cpu usage.
  - ghaff 5y ago
    But many of us are not very heavyweight docs/slides/sheets users. For 95%+ of what I do just having a web experience on a browser that’s just a login away is an infinitely better experience than the old desktop days. In general there’s plenty of performance to go around. For many things I don’t see a big difference between an M1 Pro MacBook and 6 yo machines.
  - JumpCrisscross 5y ago
    > the performance is worse. I point out the example of a small spreadsheet. Open it in Google sheets, and you are using 1/2 gigs+ in ram plus heavy cpu. Open it in a desktop app maybe you will use 20 to 30 mb of ram, and low cpu usage. Performance, measured in human units--e.g. time to load, refresh, et cetera--is fine. That's what ultimately matters. The customers are the humans. Not the machines.
ryanmcdonough 5y ago
How many people are willing to pay on Windows Desktop for apps vs iOS consumers?
- sirjaz 5y ago
  Surprisingly a lot. Look at steam or epic games. If those platforms also advertised non game software, people would buy it.
  - ryanmcdonough 5y ago
    Steam does and people don’t though.
  - callalex 5y ago
    Steam supports non-game software, but they haven’t managed to attract all that many sellers to their marketplace.
tra3 5y ago
Anecdotally, most teams I know building mobile apps are using some sort of cross platform toolkits, unless native is really required. So you're kinda killing many birds with one stone.
- jasfi 5y ago
  Totally, I'm using Flutter for that reason. But I built a simplified SDK that can also be used from the back-end with any supported language. I'm planning on releasing an Open Source edition (which is the whole thing right now) soon: https://nexusdev.tools/ https://nexusdev.tools/
Dotnaught 5y ago
>the mobile app boom Are these genuinely useful apps or cynical efforts to clone popular games/apps and monetize via ads? If the latter, volume says more about the business model than demand for novel functionality.
jamil7 5y ago
> This doesn't explain the mobile app boom then. I feel that it doesn't make sense to expect the exact same transition desktop went through to happen on mobile, mobile is just different and has a different set of constraints.
david-cako 5y ago
Mobile is about discoverability and money. iOS users are more willing to pay for apps than any other platform, and every established business wants an app so they can be on more devices.

by sirjaz 5y ago

bin_bash 5y ago

Apple has hamstrung Safari so it's not capable enough to replace webapps (chiefly for notifications)

owlbite 5y ago
The nakedly predatory user-hostile nature of many large actors on the web really gave them no choice.
- bin_bash 5y ago
  Do you think it's that or they'd prefer to get their 30% cut of transactions?
  - KerrAvon 5y ago
    I think it's that. Remember that Steve Jobs didn't want third party apps on the iPhone and had to be talked into it.
    - ace2358 5y ago
      Right, the original story was write web apps. So Apple has changed tunes on this topic before.
    - bccdee 5y ago
      Steve Jobs is dead, and Apple's primary responsibility is to its shareholders, not its users. Subtly and pervasively hamstringing PWAs doesn't protect users. What would it even be protecting them from? PWAs that work well offline? No, it just coerces developers into writing native apps and distributing them through Apple's App Store instead.
      - wbear 5y ago
        While being locked in to a single app store without jailbreak isn't ideal, I'd rather have a native app on my phone than some lowest-bidder web app that downloads 10MB every time and runs terribly.

JumpCrisscross 5y ago

> doesn't explain the mobile app boom then If my laptop is connected to the Internet, it's fast. That isn't as universally true on mobile. (Desktops are also more reliably connected to the internet when on.)

sirjaz 5y ago
But the performance is worse. I point out the example of a small spreadsheet. Open it in Google sheets, and you are using 1/2 gigs+ in ram plus heavy cpu. Open it in a desktop app maybe you will use 20 to 30 mb of ram, and low cpu usage.
- ghaff 5y ago
  But many of us are not very heavyweight docs/slides/sheets users. For 95%+ of what I do just having a web experience on a browser that’s just a login away is an infinitely better experience than the old desktop days. In general there’s plenty of performance to go around. For many things I don’t see a big difference between an M1 Pro MacBook and 6 yo machines.
- JumpCrisscross 5y ago
  > the performance is worse. I point out the example of a small spreadsheet. Open it in Google sheets, and you are using 1/2 gigs+ in ram plus heavy cpu. Open it in a desktop app maybe you will use 20 to 30 mb of ram, and low cpu usage. Performance, measured in human units--e.g. time to load, refresh, et cetera--is fine. That's what ultimately matters. The customers are the humans. Not the machines.

ryanmcdonough 5y ago

How many people are willing to pay on Windows Desktop for apps vs iOS consumers?

sirjaz 5y ago
Surprisingly a lot. Look at steam or epic games. If those platforms also advertised non game software, people would buy it.
- ryanmcdonough 5y ago
  Steam does and people don’t though.
- callalex 5y ago
  Steam supports non-game software, but they haven’t managed to attract all that many sellers to their marketplace.

tra3 5y ago

Anecdotally, most teams I know building mobile apps are using some sort of cross platform toolkits, unless native is really required. So you're kinda killing many birds with one stone.

jasfi 5y ago
Totally, I'm using Flutter for that reason. But I built a simplified SDK that can also be used from the back-end with any supported language. I'm planning on releasing an Open Source edition (which is the whole thing right now) soon: https://nexusdev.tools/ https://nexusdev.tools/

Dotnaught 5y ago

>the mobile app boom Are these genuinely useful apps or cynical efforts to clone popular games/apps and monetize via ads? If the latter, volume says more about the business model than demand for novel functionality.

jamil7 5y ago

> This doesn't explain the mobile app boom then. I feel that it doesn't make sense to expect the exact same transition desktop went through to happen on mobile, mobile is just different and has a different set of constraints.

david-cako 5y ago

Mobile is about discoverability and money. iOS users are more willing to pay for apps than any other platform, and every established business wants an app so they can be on more devices.