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And why is this part of life one where selfishness - "I want that experience for my life" - is applauded and encouraged? Especially given that here, the child s

And why is this part of life one where selfishness - "I want that experience for my life" - is applauded and encouraged? Especially given that here, the child suffers if you make a mistake. Humans tend to be far more judgmental about selfish desires where mostly just the selfish person suffers if a mistake is made. There are other ways to experience the joys of parenthood, especially given that most parents seem to look for any way they can find to offload such joys for some reason. Offer to look after your nieces and nephews for a time, for example. Run a volunteer daycare. If you are not willing or able to be a good driver, you should not drive. If you are not willing or able to be a good parent, do not have children. Do think about the decision very, very carefully - the stakes are very high. If you don't end up having children - well, at least you didn't end up causing others any harm. But I understand what you are saying - you should also recognize the situation where you are, in fact, ready. It's like being able to choose when to sit an exam - there is always another week you can spend studying, and at some point you have to decide you are ready once you are in fact reasonably prepared.

micromacrofoot 5y ago
Reproduction is a baseline biological function and I will never agree that participating is "selfish." We're not going to see eye-to-eye here.
- cercatrova 5y ago
  Just because it is a biological prerogative does not mean that it doesn't cause suffering. I've seen lions eat gazelle babies straight out of the womb, is that not suffering? Now, that is an extreme example, but people having kids in a bad environment, just because they can, can cause undue suffering to the child. That is why it is prudent to wait for the right time, is the parent commentor's point I believe.
  - micromacrofoot 5y ago
    There's an incredibly wide range of "bad environment" - where's the line (and who decides where it is)? Should only people living in the first world get to have children?

micromacrofoot 5y ago

Reproduction is a baseline biological function and I will never agree that participating is "selfish." We're not going to see eye-to-eye here.

cercatrova 5y ago
Just because it is a biological prerogative does not mean that it doesn't cause suffering. I've seen lions eat gazelle babies straight out of the womb, is that not suffering? Now, that is an extreme example, but people having kids in a bad environment, just because they can, can cause undue suffering to the child. That is why it is prudent to wait for the right time, is the parent commentor's point I believe.
- micromacrofoot 5y ago
  There's an incredibly wide range of "bad environment" - where's the line (and who decides where it is)? Should only people living in the first world get to have children?