3 ms·

AA is a religious organization. Not everyone wants to be “saved”. Nor should they have to be in order to get treatment for alcoholism.

clsec 5y ago
IMO it's a cult. I spent a lot of my childhood at AA meetings with my alcoholic mother. I am also an alcoholic and struggled for years because the only answer I was ever offered was AA/NA. I tried it for myself a few times (usually to please others) but was always instantly turned off by it's cult like attributes. I eventually found help through a few different paths. disclaimer: my half-sister's mother was in a cult (Alive Polarity Fellowship) for 20 years.
- franknstein 5y ago
  This might sound rough, but don't you think some brainwashing could help your situation?
  - clsec 5y ago
    Well, there was this in my post > "I eventually found help through a few different paths." So thanks anyway but I don't need any help, especially brainwashing. My mind is too analytical to respond to it anyway ;)
- dotancohen 5y ago
  Share what helped, please.
duped 5y ago
Not only is it religious, its not founded in any empiricism or medical study. Here's a decent article laying out the critiques, the opening paragraph is what everyone should keep in mind: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/03/the-surprising-failures-of-12-steps/284616/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/03/the-surpr... > Say you’ve been diagnosed with a serious, life-altering illness or psychological condition. In lieu of medication, psychotherapy, or a combination thereof, your doctor prescribes nightly meetings with a group of similarly afflicted individuals, and a set of 12 non-medical guidelines for recovery, half of which require direct appeals to God. What would you do?
- rchaud 5y ago
  AFAIK, AA doesn't make you swear on the Bible or profess one's faith in Christ before you're allowed to join a meeting. You can ignore the religious stuff and still make use of AA's highest-impact features: - regular meetings, no appointment required - being open and vulnerable in front of other people who understand the hell of addiction in ways your partner or family won't. - having an accountability partners to call during moments of temptation, and having that reciprocal commitment is a far stronger deterrent to relapse than calling a crisis hotline offering scripted responses.
  - duped 5y ago
    The alternative to AA isn't a crisis hotline, but medical treatment with empirical support for its effectiveness
    - holler 5y ago
      What medical treatment? 12 step is fundamentally about community and connection (opposite of addiction), there is no pill that can give one that.
  - kar5pt 5y ago
    You can't ignore the religious stuff. It's baked into the program. Daily prayer is considered a non-optional part of the 12 steps and atheists and constantly derided as being arrogant and unlikely to stay sober. They're a reason why atheists have found it necessary to create separate meetings and why regional intergroups often exclude those meetings from public meeting lists since they consider it to not be "real" AA.
SkittyDog 5y ago
With respect, I believe you have a common misunderstanding of 12-step programs... AA is not an inherently religious organization, nor does it require any religious/supernatural beliefs. I'm an atheist, and I've been to years of AA meetings. There is no requirement of religious belief for participating. The concept of a "higher power" is an important part of dealing with our narcissistic ego defenses, but it's not necessarily a religious concept. God just happens to be a convenient implementation of a "higher power" that works for a lot of folks. Now, there are plenty of people in AA, attending and running meetings, who DO have religious beliefs. A lot of AA literature is written by people who have religious beliefs... The people who founded AA had religious beliefs. So I think it's understandable that religion appears a lot in the mix. Plenty of modern AA groups explicitly address the "God not required" issue... Maybe it helps that I live in a big city, but I've never had a problem with being an atheist and participating in AA.
genzoman 5y ago
https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2020/03/alcoholics-anonymous-most-effective-path-to-alcohol-abstinence.html https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2020/03/alcoholics-an...

clsec 5y ago

IMO it's a cult. I spent a lot of my childhood at AA meetings with my alcoholic mother. I am also an alcoholic and struggled for years because the only answer I was ever offered was AA/NA. I tried it for myself a few times (usually to please others) but was always instantly turned off by it's cult like attributes. I eventually found help through a few different paths. disclaimer: my half-sister's mother was in a cult (Alive Polarity Fellowship) for 20 years.

franknstein 5y ago
This might sound rough, but don't you think some brainwashing could help your situation?
- clsec 5y ago
  Well, there was this in my post > "I eventually found help through a few different paths." So thanks anyway but I don't need any help, especially brainwashing. My mind is too analytical to respond to it anyway ;)
dotancohen 5y ago
Share what helped, please.

duped 5y ago

Not only is it religious, its not founded in any empiricism or medical study. Here's a decent article laying out the critiques, the opening paragraph is what everyone should keep in mind: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/03/the-surprising-failures-of-12-steps/284616/ https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/03/the-surpr... > Say you’ve been diagnosed with a serious, life-altering illness or psychological condition. In lieu of medication, psychotherapy, or a combination thereof, your doctor prescribes nightly meetings with a group of similarly afflicted individuals, and a set of 12 non-medical guidelines for recovery, half of which require direct appeals to God. What would you do?

rchaud 5y ago
AFAIK, AA doesn't make you swear on the Bible or profess one's faith in Christ before you're allowed to join a meeting. You can ignore the religious stuff and still make use of AA's highest-impact features: - regular meetings, no appointment required - being open and vulnerable in front of other people who understand the hell of addiction in ways your partner or family won't. - having an accountability partners to call during moments of temptation, and having that reciprocal commitment is a far stronger deterrent to relapse than calling a crisis hotline offering scripted responses.
- duped 5y ago
  The alternative to AA isn't a crisis hotline, but medical treatment with empirical support for its effectiveness
  - holler 5y ago
    What medical treatment? 12 step is fundamentally about community and connection (opposite of addiction), there is no pill that can give one that.
- kar5pt 5y ago
  You can't ignore the religious stuff. It's baked into the program. Daily prayer is considered a non-optional part of the 12 steps and atheists and constantly derided as being arrogant and unlikely to stay sober. They're a reason why atheists have found it necessary to create separate meetings and why regional intergroups often exclude those meetings from public meeting lists since they consider it to not be "real" AA.

SkittyDog 5y ago

With respect, I believe you have a common misunderstanding of 12-step programs... AA is not an inherently religious organization, nor does it require any religious/supernatural beliefs. I'm an atheist, and I've been to years of AA meetings. There is no requirement of religious belief for participating. The concept of a "higher power" is an important part of dealing with our narcissistic ego defenses, but it's not necessarily a religious concept. God just happens to be a convenient implementation of a "higher power" that works for a lot of folks. Now, there are plenty of people in AA, attending and running meetings, who DO have religious beliefs. A lot of AA literature is written by people who have religious beliefs... The people who founded AA had religious beliefs. So I think it's understandable that religion appears a lot in the mix. Plenty of modern AA groups explicitly address the "God not required" issue... Maybe it helps that I live in a big city, but I've never had a problem with being an atheist and participating in AA.

genzoman 5y ago

https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2020/03/alcoholics-anonymous-most-effective-path-to-alcohol-abstinence.html https://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2020/03/alcoholics-an...