4 ms·

I agree. You mentioned email, but to me the main issue is when one calls a support number. I absolutely despise calling a customer support number and having to

by ss108 5y ago

I agree. You mentioned email, but to me the main issue is when one calls a support number. I absolutely despise calling a customer support number and having to listen to the "automated" response that gives one menu options that one navigates via numbers on the telephone (it's only automated for them, not the for the end-user, who has to manually chug through this process, with menu items that don't even necessarily correspond to their specific question). I absolutely abhor speaking to a machine via voice as well. From Alexa to saying dumb shit like "pay my bill" to a system over the phone, I will not do it. I think it's disgusting.

ironmagma 5y ago
The sheer cardinality of ways they mess it up is impressive. 1. Long intro message with hours, location, website intro, email address and to hang up and call 911 if it’s an emergency 2. “Our menu items have recently changed” years after changing them 3. “We are currently experiencing higher than normal call volume” 100% of the time 4. No “other” option 5. Listing options 2, 3, 4, 5 and then the most common option “1,” last. 6. Following a huge phone menu and getting a busy signal at the end. I could go on. There need to be legal consequences at some point just to counteract the mental instability we undertake as a nation as a result of this insanity.
- tomrod 5y ago
  The worst is when they won't accept new calls in queue, and just hang up.
  - inetknght 5y ago
    Aflac has recently (past year) 100% stopped their phone support. Calling their phone support tells you to log in to their website. I hope you don't have trouble with their website! I was able to get my issue sort-of resolved by making a complaint to a regulator -- I now have a direct line to someone capable of taking my phone call. But that's not an option for every company.
    - tomrod 5y ago
      The IRS dumps you after navigating their call tree if you need less popular options that aren't clear. Me: I want to comply with tax laws but have a question. IRS: Oh, you submitted paperwork and want to follow up on a letter we responded with? Hey, good luck. Maybe get an opinion from a tax attorney or CPA on what we mean in our comms.
      - Isthatablackgsd 5y ago
        I ran into this issue before. I was calling IRS to ask for simple clarification on the taxes. Me: Hello, I have some question about the taxes and I wish to have clarification on- Agent: Sorry, I cannot answer your question. Me: Oh, then where the correct resource for me to get that information? Agent: Sorry again, I cannot answer your question. Me: Why you cannot answer my question? I am asking for a clarification on the taxes and IRS is the correct place for me to contact. Agent: Because the law said so. You are asking tax-related question during tax off-season which we cannot answer nor help you. I'm sorry I cannot help you because the law prevents me from doing so. If you want your questions answered by the IRS, then you would need to wait until the tax season. Me: Are you serious? Agent: Unfortunately yes, there is nothing I can do at this moment. If I attempt to help you, I will be facing federal charge for the violation of the law. Your best chance is to wait until tax season. Not even on hint of advisement to check with my CPA because that would consider helping the consumers.
      - ss108 5y ago
        Oh btw, they send their 2FA via regular mail. WTF IS UP WITH THAT How hostile Practically designed to convert people libertarian
      - smsm42 5y ago
        Got this from IRS recently. "We're not giving you $FIVE_FIGURE_SUM of your return because we won't tell you why, if you want details, call our number". Calling their number says "we have too many shmucks to call us already, you're out of luck, bye-bye". I foresee it's going to be very, very frustrating experience.
    - 5y ago
- mikepurvis 5y ago
  I think of this sometimes like a roller coaster park where you pay a flat rate to get in and then ride as much as you want all day. The ideal scenario for the visitor is to go in and ride continuously, not waiting for anything. However, the ideal scenario for the park is for you to spend your whole day in queues, not taking up space on the rides, and not running around making the park feel "crowded". The equilibrium is the park studying what people's upper tolerance is for wait time and then ensuring there are just enough rides that everyone comes close to that but few exceed it. Obviously it's not a perfect analogy, but having people wait in line on the phone does serve an important function for the CS department in the sense that it gives those folks an extended opportunity to either solve it themselves some other way, or give up. Neither of these are great for long term brand loyalty, and the cost of the added frustration is probably mostly borne by the hapless agents who do finally end up taking those calls. But from the point of view of short term bean-counters, I would guess that it's unlikely any of these dark patterns are an accident (even if they don't implement the patterns themselves, they would hire the consultant who "streamlines" the after-sales experience to optimize for cost).
  - ironmagma 5y ago
    There is an important distinction between “this thing is done for a reason” and “this thing is done for a good reason.” Even in the long term, this might look like a good thing to a CEO. However, my point is that it isn’t.
- madphilosopher 5y ago
  "Our call volume is currently very high and the wait time is X minutes. Please press 1 if you would like to be put in the queue and have an agent call you." I wish more companies did this so that I can actually get on with my day without spending it on hold.
  - smsm42 5y ago
    Except they either won't call back at all, or will call back way later than promised - usually when you decided it's not going to happen and moved on with your day, and now you don't have any of the documents and data you need with you and actually are driving, so the callback is useless.
yesenadam 5y ago
And (in Australia anyway) you have to listen to a machine say "This call may be monitored for quality" - but they don't "monitor" the awful 5-45 minutes of waiting, then pressing buttons, more waiting etc to eventually get through to a real person – the low quality half of the call, from the customer's perspective. I hate that.
- OJFord 5y ago
  I often make a point of vocalising my frustration/description of what's going wrong, just in case... Recently I had to type a number when I thought I'd been prompted to speak it, for example. Then when I did type it, there was no way to correct an error (account number & DoB, seemed like it might be critical), so I had to hang up and try again.
selectronics 5y ago
Very frustrating dealing with these systems, as it's known ahead of time that the experience is going to be a fruitless slog. Perhaps this increased friction is by design, to reduce the incoming support call volume? Fortunately, for some of these systems, ignoring the menu and stating "Operator" over and over does lead to a human, when there appears to be no path through the menus to otherwise reach one. I've heard that cursing at the automated system also leads to a redirect to a human, too. The results of this are that delivery companies still occasionally "lose" my address and tell me it's invalid and cannot be reached, despite having previously done so numerous times! I have no way to get through to the proper resources to fix their system after over a year.
- ss108 5y ago
  Yeah, I find usually scrambling the keypad or repeatedly pressing 9 or # can yield a person.

by ss108 5y ago

ironmagma 5y ago

The sheer cardinality of ways they mess it up is impressive. 1. Long intro message with hours, location, website intro, email address and to hang up and call 911 if it’s an emergency 2. “Our menu items have recently changed” years after changing them 3. “We are currently experiencing higher than normal call volume” 100% of the time 4. No “other” option 5. Listing options 2, 3, 4, 5 and then the most common option “1,” last. 6. Following a huge phone menu and getting a busy signal at the end. I could go on. There need to be legal consequences at some point just to counteract the mental instability we undertake as a nation as a result of this insanity.

tomrod 5y ago
The worst is when they won't accept new calls in queue, and just hang up.
- inetknght 5y ago
  Aflac has recently (past year) 100% stopped their phone support. Calling their phone support tells you to log in to their website. I hope you don't have trouble with their website! I was able to get my issue sort-of resolved by making a complaint to a regulator -- I now have a direct line to someone capable of taking my phone call. But that's not an option for every company.
  - tomrod 5y ago
    The IRS dumps you after navigating their call tree if you need less popular options that aren't clear. Me: I want to comply with tax laws but have a question. IRS: Oh, you submitted paperwork and want to follow up on a letter we responded with? Hey, good luck. Maybe get an opinion from a tax attorney or CPA on what we mean in our comms.
    - Isthatablackgsd 5y ago
      I ran into this issue before. I was calling IRS to ask for simple clarification on the taxes. Me: Hello, I have some question about the taxes and I wish to have clarification on- Agent: Sorry, I cannot answer your question. Me: Oh, then where the correct resource for me to get that information? Agent: Sorry again, I cannot answer your question. Me: Why you cannot answer my question? I am asking for a clarification on the taxes and IRS is the correct place for me to contact. Agent: Because the law said so. You are asking tax-related question during tax off-season which we cannot answer nor help you. I'm sorry I cannot help you because the law prevents me from doing so. If you want your questions answered by the IRS, then you would need to wait until the tax season. Me: Are you serious? Agent: Unfortunately yes, there is nothing I can do at this moment. If I attempt to help you, I will be facing federal charge for the violation of the law. Your best chance is to wait until tax season. Not even on hint of advisement to check with my CPA because that would consider helping the consumers.
    - ss108 5y ago
      Oh btw, they send their 2FA via regular mail. WTF IS UP WITH THAT How hostile Practically designed to convert people libertarian
    - smsm42 5y ago
      Got this from IRS recently. "We're not giving you $FIVE_FIGURE_SUM of your return because we won't tell you why, if you want details, call our number". Calling their number says "we have too many shmucks to call us already, you're out of luck, bye-bye". I foresee it's going to be very, very frustrating experience.
  - 5y ago
mikepurvis 5y ago
I think of this sometimes like a roller coaster park where you pay a flat rate to get in and then ride as much as you want all day. The ideal scenario for the visitor is to go in and ride continuously, not waiting for anything. However, the ideal scenario for the park is for you to spend your whole day in queues, not taking up space on the rides, and not running around making the park feel "crowded". The equilibrium is the park studying what people's upper tolerance is for wait time and then ensuring there are just enough rides that everyone comes close to that but few exceed it. Obviously it's not a perfect analogy, but having people wait in line on the phone does serve an important function for the CS department in the sense that it gives those folks an extended opportunity to either solve it themselves some other way, or give up. Neither of these are great for long term brand loyalty, and the cost of the added frustration is probably mostly borne by the hapless agents who do finally end up taking those calls. But from the point of view of short term bean-counters, I would guess that it's unlikely any of these dark patterns are an accident (even if they don't implement the patterns themselves, they would hire the consultant who "streamlines" the after-sales experience to optimize for cost).
- ironmagma 5y ago
  There is an important distinction between “this thing is done for a reason” and “this thing is done for a good reason.” Even in the long term, this might look like a good thing to a CEO. However, my point is that it isn’t.
madphilosopher 5y ago
"Our call volume is currently very high and the wait time is X minutes. Please press 1 if you would like to be put in the queue and have an agent call you." I wish more companies did this so that I can actually get on with my day without spending it on hold.
- smsm42 5y ago
  Except they either won't call back at all, or will call back way later than promised - usually when you decided it's not going to happen and moved on with your day, and now you don't have any of the documents and data you need with you and actually are driving, so the callback is useless.

yesenadam 5y ago

And (in Australia anyway) you have to listen to a machine say "This call may be monitored for quality" - but they don't "monitor" the awful 5-45 minutes of waiting, then pressing buttons, more waiting etc to eventually get through to a real person – the low quality half of the call, from the customer's perspective. I hate that.

OJFord 5y ago
I often make a point of vocalising my frustration/description of what's going wrong, just in case... Recently I had to type a number when I thought I'd been prompted to speak it, for example. Then when I did type it, there was no way to correct an error (account number & DoB, seemed like it might be critical), so I had to hang up and try again.

selectronics 5y ago

Very frustrating dealing with these systems, as it's known ahead of time that the experience is going to be a fruitless slog. Perhaps this increased friction is by design, to reduce the incoming support call volume? Fortunately, for some of these systems, ignoring the menu and stating "Operator" over and over does lead to a human, when there appears to be no path through the menus to otherwise reach one. I've heard that cursing at the automated system also leads to a redirect to a human, too. The results of this are that delivery companies still occasionally "lose" my address and tell me it's invalid and cannot be reached, despite having previously done so numerous times! I have no way to get through to the proper resources to fix their system after over a year.

ss108 5y ago
Yeah, I find usually scrambling the keypad or repeatedly pressing 9 or # can yield a person.