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I'm not going to try to persuade you (or anyone) from stopping drinking, I'm just saying that for most people it seems a bizarre oversight to not even consider

I'm not going to try to persuade you (or anyone) from stopping drinking, I'm just saying that for most people it seems a bizarre oversight to not even consider it. You don't need to be so defensive.

chockchocschoir 5y ago
I'm not defensive, I'm trying to explain my position (as a self-proclaimed "smart and rational" person) since you claimed there was no (logical) reason to have those vices. You're making strong claims, and I'm just asking you to back those up without forcing people to buy a book that you say supports those claims. Otherwise there isn't much value in you making your claims here. I'm sure (or rather, I hope) the book helps many who face addiction with those things and there isn't much to lose by helping more people finding the book if they are looking for help, so thanks for sharing it anyway.
- dataengineer56 5y ago
  I asked why you found it enjoyable and you didn't respond, so it's hard to explain the author's viewpoint when you haven't explained why you drink. To give generalised responses to the three main reasons that people give: - Do you enjoy the taste? - Alcohol is ultimately a foul-tasting poison. No one ever liked their first taste of beer. We start with highly-flavoured drinks like alcopops and after a while our body says "well you must have a damn good reason for imbibing this poison, so I'll stop warning you as much". - Do you think it helps you relax? - Alcohol dulls your senses. I'd consider relaxing to be a sensation, and so in this respect it can't help you relax. On a deeper level, generally to relax you need to fix the thing that would stop you from relaxing - you have a headache and you take aspirin. Alcohol is not the solution to any stressor. - Do you think it's necessary to enjoy social situations? - Think about children at a party. They turn up very shy and within 30 mins are bouncing off the walls. No alcohol needed. Adults are the same. And we all have multiple memories of social events that have been ruined by alcohol.
  - Tenoke 5y ago
    >- Do you think it's necessary to enjoy social situations? I don't think it's necessary (for me). I am in social situations with and without alcohol often enough and it's easy to see I on average enjoy myself more when drinking in those.
  - briHass 5y ago
    Nobody likes their first taste of black coffee or unsweetened grapefruit, either. The bitter tastes are definitely acquired, and tend to be liked by men more than women.
    - dataengineer56 5y ago
      Chili peppers too. All of these initially-offputting tastes are strategies by the plant to make animals not want to eat them. However as humans we've decided they're tasty and that it's worth learning to like them. The key difference between these and alcohol is that we know none of them are actually harmful (yes I know that coffee is harmful in large quantities). This is quite different to drinking ethanol, a literal poison that sends the liver into panic stations the instant it detects it.
  - tejohnso 5y ago
    Going to these lengths of rationalizing not drinking seems a bit absurd. Especially the one about taste. Someone says they enjoy the taste and the rationalization is essentially "you're wrong, it tastes bad, you just think it tastes good". Okay well if I think it tastes good, then it tastes good. What's the point here? I suppose if I wanted to avoid drinking, I could seek out something like this to help give me a framework for thinking about it in a different way. It might help. A program like AA might help as well, and I might seek that out if I wanted to stop drinking. But just as going to AA if you're not trying to stop drinking would be pretty unusual and maybe even silly, these attempts at rationalization seem pretty silly, over complicated, faulty, and unnecessary to me.
  - tallanvor 5y ago
    - When I was a child I didn't like broccoli, brussel sprouts, or many other things that I like today. That doesn't mean that my body decided "well you must have a damn good reason for imbibing this poison, so I'll stop warning you as much". - I guess the author can consider relaxing to be a sensation, but I don't think I'd be convinced by his argument to that effect. - When I was a child I was not "bouncing off the walls" within 30 minutes of turning up at a party. If I didn't know people there, I was much more likely to try to find a quiet place to read. There's nothing wrong with choosing not to drink, but society has made a decision that drinking in certain situations is acceptable despite knowing that it can have a negative impact on your health.
Sosh101 5y ago
You're coming across pretty pushy.

I'm not going to try to persuade you (or anyone) from stopping drinking, I'm just saying that for most people it seems a bizarre oversight to not even consider it. You don't need to be so defensive.

chockchocschoir 5y ago

I'm not defensive, I'm trying to explain my position (as a self-proclaimed "smart and rational" person) since you claimed there was no (logical) reason to have those vices. You're making strong claims, and I'm just asking you to back those up without forcing people to buy a book that you say supports those claims. Otherwise there isn't much value in you making your claims here. I'm sure (or rather, I hope) the book helps many who face addiction with those things and there isn't much to lose by helping more people finding the book if they are looking for help, so thanks for sharing it anyway.

dataengineer56 5y ago
I asked why you found it enjoyable and you didn't respond, so it's hard to explain the author's viewpoint when you haven't explained why you drink. To give generalised responses to the three main reasons that people give: - Do you enjoy the taste? - Alcohol is ultimately a foul-tasting poison. No one ever liked their first taste of beer. We start with highly-flavoured drinks like alcopops and after a while our body says "well you must have a damn good reason for imbibing this poison, so I'll stop warning you as much". - Do you think it helps you relax? - Alcohol dulls your senses. I'd consider relaxing to be a sensation, and so in this respect it can't help you relax. On a deeper level, generally to relax you need to fix the thing that would stop you from relaxing - you have a headache and you take aspirin. Alcohol is not the solution to any stressor. - Do you think it's necessary to enjoy social situations? - Think about children at a party. They turn up very shy and within 30 mins are bouncing off the walls. No alcohol needed. Adults are the same. And we all have multiple memories of social events that have been ruined by alcohol.
- Tenoke 5y ago
  >- Do you think it's necessary to enjoy social situations? I don't think it's necessary (for me). I am in social situations with and without alcohol often enough and it's easy to see I on average enjoy myself more when drinking in those.
- briHass 5y ago
  Nobody likes their first taste of black coffee or unsweetened grapefruit, either. The bitter tastes are definitely acquired, and tend to be liked by men more than women.
  - dataengineer56 5y ago
    Chili peppers too. All of these initially-offputting tastes are strategies by the plant to make animals not want to eat them. However as humans we've decided they're tasty and that it's worth learning to like them. The key difference between these and alcohol is that we know none of them are actually harmful (yes I know that coffee is harmful in large quantities). This is quite different to drinking ethanol, a literal poison that sends the liver into panic stations the instant it detects it.
- tejohnso 5y ago
  Going to these lengths of rationalizing not drinking seems a bit absurd. Especially the one about taste. Someone says they enjoy the taste and the rationalization is essentially "you're wrong, it tastes bad, you just think it tastes good". Okay well if I think it tastes good, then it tastes good. What's the point here? I suppose if I wanted to avoid drinking, I could seek out something like this to help give me a framework for thinking about it in a different way. It might help. A program like AA might help as well, and I might seek that out if I wanted to stop drinking. But just as going to AA if you're not trying to stop drinking would be pretty unusual and maybe even silly, these attempts at rationalization seem pretty silly, over complicated, faulty, and unnecessary to me.
- tallanvor 5y ago
  - When I was a child I didn't like broccoli, brussel sprouts, or many other things that I like today. That doesn't mean that my body decided "well you must have a damn good reason for imbibing this poison, so I'll stop warning you as much". - I guess the author can consider relaxing to be a sensation, but I don't think I'd be convinced by his argument to that effect. - When I was a child I was not "bouncing off the walls" within 30 minutes of turning up at a party. If I didn't know people there, I was much more likely to try to find a quiet place to read. There's nothing wrong with choosing not to drink, but society has made a decision that drinking in certain situations is acceptable despite knowing that it can have a negative impact on your health.

Sosh101 5y ago

You're coming across pretty pushy.