4 ms·

I would recommend you read the book, but why do you think you enjoy it? Do you enjoy the taste, do you think it helps you relax, do you think it's necessary to

I would recommend you read the book, but why do you think you enjoy it? Do you enjoy the taste, do you think it helps you relax, do you think it's necessary to enjoy social situations?

chockchocschoir 5y ago
It's hard to justify reading the book if I don't think I do want to stop smoking or drinking. It's enjoyable on multiple levels, just like gaming, commenting on HN, reading interesting articles, going for bike rides, eating good food and many other things. I understand for people who have negative consequences for something would like to stop (when they're addicted), but if the negative consequences are small compared to the enjoyability, what's the point of stopping something?
- dataengineer56 5y ago
  I'm not going to try to persuade you (or anyone) from stopping drinking, I'm just saying that for most people it seems a bizarre oversight to not even consider it. You don't need to be so defensive.
  - chockchocschoir 5y ago
    I'm not defensive, I'm trying to explain my position (as a self-proclaimed "smart and rational" person) since you claimed there was no (logical) reason to have those vices. You're making strong claims, and I'm just asking you to back those up without forcing people to buy a book that you say supports those claims. Otherwise there isn't much value in you making your claims here. I'm sure (or rather, I hope) the book helps many who face addiction with those things and there isn't much to lose by helping more people finding the book if they are looking for help, so thanks for sharing it anyway.
    - dataengineer56 5y ago
      I asked why you found it enjoyable and you didn't respond, so it's hard to explain the author's viewpoint when you haven't explained why you drink. To give generalised responses to the three main reasons that people give: - Do you enjoy the taste? - Alcohol is ultimately a foul-tasting poison. No one ever liked their first taste of beer. We start with highly-flavoured drinks like alcopops and after a while our body says "well you must have a damn good reason for imbibing this poison, so I'll stop warning you as much". - Do you think it helps you relax? - Alcohol dulls your senses. I'd consider relaxing to be a sensation, and so in this respect it can't help you relax. On a deeper level, generally to relax you need to fix the thing that would stop you from relaxing - you have a headache and you take aspirin. Alcohol is not the solution to any stressor. - Do you think it's necessary to enjoy social situations? - Think about children at a party. They turn up very shy and within 30 mins are bouncing off the walls. No alcohol needed. Adults are the same. And we all have multiple memories of social events that have been ruined by alcohol.
      - Tenoke 5y ago
        >- Do you think it's necessary to enjoy social situations? I don't think it's necessary (for me). I am in social situations with and without alcohol often enough and it's easy to see I on average enjoy myself more when drinking in those.
      - briHass 5y ago
        Nobody likes their first taste of black coffee or unsweetened grapefruit, either. The bitter tastes are definitely acquired, and tend to be liked by men more than women.
        dataengineer56 5y ago
        Chili peppers too. All of these initially-offputting tastes are strategies by the plant to make animals not want to eat them. However as humans we've decided they're tasty and that it's worth learning to like them. The key difference between these and alcohol is that we know none of them are actually harmful (yes I know that coffee is harmful in large quantities). This is quite different to drinking ethanol, a literal poison that sends the liver into panic stations the instant it detects it.
  - Sosh101 5y ago
    You're coming across pretty pushy.
- yosito 5y ago
  > It's hard to justify reading the book if I don't think I do want to stop smoking or drinking. I agree with you that the book might not be right for you if you don't want to stop. On the other hand, I didn't think I wanted to stop drinking, until I did want to stop, and then suddenly I wished I hadn't spent the last 10 years drinking. It ultimately didn't enhance my life at all. But I wouldn't have heard that message until I was ready.
  - dataengineer56 5y ago
    That was my situation too - I wasn't drinking much and decided I'd do some reading to decide whether I should keep drinking intermittently or just ditch it entirely. Once I started reading then I couldn't believe I'd ever drank in the first place.
    - cutthegrass2 5y ago
      are you able to share any links to the info you read?
      - yosito 5y ago
        Not the commenter you were replying to, but Biology of Desire by Marc Lewis was a good one. There was also a lot of good info in The Sober Truth by Lance Dodes, but it's more of a rebuttal against 12 step programs.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

I would recommend you read the book, but why do you think you enjoy it? Do you enjoy the taste, do you think it helps you relax, do you think it's necessary to enjoy social situations?

chockchocschoir 5y ago

It's hard to justify reading the book if I don't think I do want to stop smoking or drinking. It's enjoyable on multiple levels, just like gaming, commenting on HN, reading interesting articles, going for bike rides, eating good food and many other things. I understand for people who have negative consequences for something would like to stop (when they're addicted), but if the negative consequences are small compared to the enjoyability, what's the point of stopping something?

dataengineer56 5y ago
I'm not going to try to persuade you (or anyone) from stopping drinking, I'm just saying that for most people it seems a bizarre oversight to not even consider it. You don't need to be so defensive.
- chockchocschoir 5y ago
  I'm not defensive, I'm trying to explain my position (as a self-proclaimed "smart and rational" person) since you claimed there was no (logical) reason to have those vices. You're making strong claims, and I'm just asking you to back those up without forcing people to buy a book that you say supports those claims. Otherwise there isn't much value in you making your claims here. I'm sure (or rather, I hope) the book helps many who face addiction with those things and there isn't much to lose by helping more people finding the book if they are looking for help, so thanks for sharing it anyway.
  - dataengineer56 5y ago
    I asked why you found it enjoyable and you didn't respond, so it's hard to explain the author's viewpoint when you haven't explained why you drink. To give generalised responses to the three main reasons that people give: - Do you enjoy the taste? - Alcohol is ultimately a foul-tasting poison. No one ever liked their first taste of beer. We start with highly-flavoured drinks like alcopops and after a while our body says "well you must have a damn good reason for imbibing this poison, so I'll stop warning you as much". - Do you think it helps you relax? - Alcohol dulls your senses. I'd consider relaxing to be a sensation, and so in this respect it can't help you relax. On a deeper level, generally to relax you need to fix the thing that would stop you from relaxing - you have a headache and you take aspirin. Alcohol is not the solution to any stressor. - Do you think it's necessary to enjoy social situations? - Think about children at a party. They turn up very shy and within 30 mins are bouncing off the walls. No alcohol needed. Adults are the same. And we all have multiple memories of social events that have been ruined by alcohol.
    - Tenoke 5y ago
      >- Do you think it's necessary to enjoy social situations? I don't think it's necessary (for me). I am in social situations with and without alcohol often enough and it's easy to see I on average enjoy myself more when drinking in those.
    - briHass 5y ago
      Nobody likes their first taste of black coffee or unsweetened grapefruit, either. The bitter tastes are definitely acquired, and tend to be liked by men more than women.
      - dataengineer56 5y ago
        Chili peppers too. All of these initially-offputting tastes are strategies by the plant to make animals not want to eat them. However as humans we've decided they're tasty and that it's worth learning to like them. The key difference between these and alcohol is that we know none of them are actually harmful (yes I know that coffee is harmful in large quantities). This is quite different to drinking ethanol, a literal poison that sends the liver into panic stations the instant it detects it.
- Sosh101 5y ago
  You're coming across pretty pushy.
yosito 5y ago
> It's hard to justify reading the book if I don't think I do want to stop smoking or drinking. I agree with you that the book might not be right for you if you don't want to stop. On the other hand, I didn't think I wanted to stop drinking, until I did want to stop, and then suddenly I wished I hadn't spent the last 10 years drinking. It ultimately didn't enhance my life at all. But I wouldn't have heard that message until I was ready.
- dataengineer56 5y ago
  That was my situation too - I wasn't drinking much and decided I'd do some reading to decide whether I should keep drinking intermittently or just ditch it entirely. Once I started reading then I couldn't believe I'd ever drank in the first place.
  - cutthegrass2 5y ago
    are you able to share any links to the info you read?
    - yosito 5y ago
      Not the commenter you were replying to, but Biology of Desire by Marc Lewis was a good one. There was also a lot of good info in The Sober Truth by Lance Dodes, but it's more of a rebuttal against 12 step programs.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]