5 ms·

> we already have them in mass production: solar panels, wind power generation and battery storage. I always hear that abstract argument but do we have the mat

> we already have them in mass production: solar panels, wind power generation and battery storage. I always hear that abstract argument but do we have the math right on this? What would it take to provide enough power in the US with only those solutions (+ hydro and other non nuclear non fossil fuel solutions)? Do we have an idea of the amount of material and pollution that would be generated by building (and then recycling) all those panels and batteries? I would like to live in a world where we don't need nuclear but I am not convinced we can realistically do without (assuming the same standard of living).

mschuster91 5y ago
> What would it take to provide enough power in the US with only those solutions (+ hydro and other non nuclear non fossil fuel solutions)? A little more than the area of West Virginia [1] if you're only going for solar power using conventional panels. [1] https://www.axionpower.com/knowledge/power-world-with-solar/ https://www.axionpower.com/knowledge/power-world-with-solar/
- tenuousemphasis 5y ago
  You're missing energy storage there, and also the logistics of producing that many solar panels.
  - mschuster91 5y ago
    We have better chances of producing that many solar panels than we have getting Gen4 reactors before 2050. As for energy storage - there's a lot of possibilities: 1) electric cars acting as buffers. Particularly rarely-used vehicles could earn some side money for being used in a smart grid. 2) battery storage like Tesla constructed in Australia 3) hydro pumped storage In particular, base load could also be generated by permanent renewable energy (e.g. geothermal or running-water hydro power aka dams) to ease the requirement for energy storage.
    - ch4s3 5y ago
      > 1) electric cars acting as buffers. Particularly rarely-used vehicles could earn some side money for being used in a smart grid. Bidirectional V2G systems only exist as demonstration projects now, and we'll need a bunch of time to ramp that up. It requires a lot of EVs, lots of grid updates all over the place, and for people to willingly participate at a meaningful scale. This won't be cheap and the grid we have now can't handle it.
    - tenuousemphasis 5y ago
      >3) hydro pumped storage Not likely to be a widely useful storage mechanism except in very specific geography. https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2011/11/pump-up-the-storage/ https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2011/11/pump-up-the-storage/
  - EricE 5y ago
    Not just producing that may solar panels, but maintaining them, replacing them, dealing with the waste panels (yes, panels do need to be replaced). You just don't chuck out a field of solar panels and ignore them. Modern reactor designs - you do basically ignore them once they are initially set up.

mschuster91 5y ago

> What would it take to provide enough power in the US with only those solutions (+ hydro and other non nuclear non fossil fuel solutions)? A little more than the area of West Virginia [1] if you're only going for solar power using conventional panels. [1] https://www.axionpower.com/knowledge/power-world-with-solar/ https://www.axionpower.com/knowledge/power-world-with-solar/

tenuousemphasis 5y ago
You're missing energy storage there, and also the logistics of producing that many solar panels.
- mschuster91 5y ago
  We have better chances of producing that many solar panels than we have getting Gen4 reactors before 2050. As for energy storage - there's a lot of possibilities: 1) electric cars acting as buffers. Particularly rarely-used vehicles could earn some side money for being used in a smart grid. 2) battery storage like Tesla constructed in Australia 3) hydro pumped storage In particular, base load could also be generated by permanent renewable energy (e.g. geothermal or running-water hydro power aka dams) to ease the requirement for energy storage.
  - ch4s3 5y ago
    > 1) electric cars acting as buffers. Particularly rarely-used vehicles could earn some side money for being used in a smart grid. Bidirectional V2G systems only exist as demonstration projects now, and we'll need a bunch of time to ramp that up. It requires a lot of EVs, lots of grid updates all over the place, and for people to willingly participate at a meaningful scale. This won't be cheap and the grid we have now can't handle it.
  - tenuousemphasis 5y ago
    >3) hydro pumped storage Not likely to be a widely useful storage mechanism except in very specific geography. https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2011/11/pump-up-the-storage/ https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2011/11/pump-up-the-storage/
- EricE 5y ago
  Not just producing that may solar panels, but maintaining them, replacing them, dealing with the waste panels (yes, panels do need to be replaced). You just don't chuck out a field of solar panels and ignore them. Modern reactor designs - you do basically ignore them once they are initially set up.